Thanks Dwight! It is always useful to have some real data and analysis to calibrate articles like Parker wrote.
Regards, John From: swrcav...@googlegroups.com <swrcav...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Dwight Deal Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 12:23 PM To: Lee Skinner <skin...@thuntek.net>; Linda Starr <lstarr...@gmail.com>; Evatt <nmca...@centurylink.net>; 1-Dwight <dirt...@comcast.net> Cc: RGVBB Google Group <rio-grande-valley-broadb...@googlegroups.com>; Cave Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com>; Cave NM <swrcav...@googlegroups.com> Subject: [SWR CAVERS] Jim Evatt nailed it.: Our beloved Rio Grande Jim Evatt nailed it. Learn why after reviewing his comments. But that is only part of a complicated situation. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evatt<https://connect.xfinity.com/appsuite/><nmca...@centurylink.net<mailto:nmca...@centurylink.net>> 7:39 PM Via swrcavers <swrcav...@googlegroups.com<mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com>> I would take this article with a grain of salt, or a lot of salt sprinkled freely around the rim of a large, full margarita glass. Mr. Parker thinks the Yukon River is entirely within the US. Not true. He thinks the Rio Grande lies entirely within the US. Also untrue. The New York Times should know better. They only care about selling copy, and most folks in New York doesn’t care a rat’s ass about NM or our river. Jim Evatt From: Linda Starr Sent: September 15, 2018 5:55 PM To: Lee Skinner Cc: RGVBB Google Group ; swrcavers@googlegroups com Subject: Re: [SWR CAVERS] Fwd: Our beloved Rio Grande is again in the news...Something to think about ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The New York Times author has propagated a long-held old-wives tale. I happen to know a lot about the flow in the Rio Grande, especially from El Paso through the Big Bend and downstream. I have floated over 2,000 miles on the Rio Grande in repeated trips over many years. I have been a river guide many times including floating in 1978 on the crest of a flood that had over 60 feet of water in the canyons. As a hydrologist I have studied it since 1967. As Jim said: "The New York Times should know better." For shame! There are some important elements of truth in the story. It is important to understand that water in both the Rio Grande and the Colorado have been over-subscribed from the beginning of water management by the building of dams. More water has been assumed to flow in the rivers than is actually the case. The effect of large open-water reservoirs is also very wasteful in arid and semi arid country. It has been calculated that if all the large reservoirs (at least on the Colorado - Lake Mead and Lake Powell) were full in the summer, more water would be lost to evaporation than annually flows down of the river. No wonder that "irrigation causes the rivers to dry up". is a common theme. But the idea that irrigation in New Mexico has caused the Rio Grande to dry up below El Paso is wrong. It has simply made a chronic problem permanent. Water laws in the West, as Rob Wood points out, are complicated and inconsistent. Not only are the laws inconsistent from state to state, both the Colorado and the Rio Grande are international waters and involve treaties with Mexico. This raises the issue of conflicts between laws and water use between the two countries. Water-ownership and allocation regimes have driven economic change. In the western United States, surface and groundwater were allocated according to the doctrine of “prior appropriation.” In Mexico, in contrast, water rights were federally held and allocated to institutions, companies and individuals. These two modes of water ownership complicated the transition from Spanish and Mexican legal systems to the U.S. one. Dam building further complicated the issues with the construction of Boulder and Hoover Dams on the Colorado River, Elephant Butte (1916) on the Rio Grande and its sister dam, La Boquilla (1916), on the Rio Conchos. Further reading for those interested is Conservation of Shared Environments: Learning from the United States and Mexico by Laura Lopez-Hoffman, Emily D. McGovern, Robert G. Varady. The tone of New York Times article is very definitely misleading in the impression that it gives of the annual flows in the river, stating that irrigation is the root cause of no flow in the Rio Grande in southern New Mexico and west Texas. The same is true for other publications, including the one above which does not treat the history of the flows between El Paso and Big Bend correctly. In 1978 I wrote a study of the river flow that still stands as a definitive work: Deal, D. E., 1978, "Evolution of the Rio Conchos—Rio Grande Drainage Basins of Northern Mexico and West Texas," A. W. Walton, and C. D. Henry, eds., Cenozoic Geology of the Trans-Pecos Volcanic Field of Texas, Conference Proceedings and Guidebook, Alpine, Texas, May 21-25; reprinted as Bureau of Economic Geology Guidebook 19, University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas, p. 137-146. Excerpted from page 139 of that report" The modern Rio Grande between Presidio and McNary (about 80 km southeast of El Paso) rarely carries flowing water except after intense summer cloudbursts. The extensive removal of water for irrigation in New Mexico and in the vicinity of El Paso is commonly regarded as the principal cause for the lack of water in the stream bed. From the accounts of early explorers, DeFord (1958, p. 7-8) has carefully documented that low stream flow has long been a recurring condition along this segment of the Rio Grande. He concluded that the impoundments only made a chronic problem permanent. I have previously compiled monthly summaries of daily records from January 1896 through December 1973 from three key International Water and Boundary Commission stations in the vicinity of Presidio (Deal, 1976, table 1). One station is on the Rio Conchos above its confluence with the Rio Grande; another is on the Rio Grande above the confluence; and the third is below the confluence. Nineteen years of records (1896 through 1914) of the uncontrolled flow of the river system at and above Presidio, prior to major impoundments upstream, show that over 70 percent of the water in the Rio Grande downstream from Presidio was supplied by the Rio Conchos (table 2). Not only did the upper Rio Grande (flowing from El Paso) contribute less than 30 percent of the water that was in the river below its confluence with the Rio Conchos, but during those same 19 years of daily record, there were 41 months when the river bed was essentially dry (table 3). During 30 of those months (including one 6-month and one 7-month period) no flow at all was recorded In the Rio Grande just upstream from the confluence. These and other data support DeFord's conclusions. The takeaway from that report is that although spring runoff from the mountains feeds a good river in Colorado and northern New Mexico, there has always been prolonged periods of a dry streambed downstream from El Paso. As noted above, there happens to exist 19 years of flow records before major damming of the river in both Mexico and the United States. Table 10 Table 11 Table 12 In addition to the accounts of early explorers summarized by DeFord (1958, p. 7-8), this pretty conclusively proves that prior to major damming by man, that there were prolonged periods of time when the Rio Grande as dry below El Paso. Damming in the US and Mexico has only made a chronic condition permanent. Historically the US has captured all the flow that used to be in the Lower Colorado and go into Mexico. The Mexicans are justifiably upset about this violation of our water treaties. More recently, the Mexicans have retaliated by using (historically 70% of the river flow through Big Bend downstream from the confluence at Presidio) much of the flow of the Rio Conchos, the master stream and the real headwaters on the Rio Grande from the Sierra Madre. Impoundments in Mexico have profoundly affected river flow (and rafting) through the Big Bend. That said, withdrawals for recreational use (evaporation from the surface of the reservoirs), crop irrigation, and some for human and livestock consumption, are a serious problem today. The problem is legally complex and changing use patterns is difficult or unlikely. Flow of the Rio Grande through New Mexico is additionally complicated and made worse if you understand that there was often not enough water in the river to make it flow below El Paso, even without man's manipulation. Dwight Deal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to swrcav...@googlegroups.com<mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/swrcavers. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/1009916554.374901.1537122169163%40connect.xfinity.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/1009916554.374901.1537122169163%40connect.xfinity.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. 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