Sir
where is the question of Gothras, cast and religion and even family?
Q On Mon, 2 Nov 2020 at 16:19, vaidyanathan sitaraman
[email protected] [Pattars] <[email protected]> wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Interesting thought; perhaps the same question I asked, in a different
phrase, expecting more replies, from the learned; but silence was the
reply. Five words soul, Gothras, caste, religion, and family are tagged in
to render a philosophical thinking. Then, is life on earth purely to pursue
from day one to day “n”, deivasmaranai (god thinking)? And never live a
life of Karma yoga? Then Epics Ramayanam and Mahabharatham, had the Gods’
learning, marrying, begetting children, ruling the country, fighting wars
etc etc as you and me do. (?). *Rama* belonged to Vasishta *Gotra* while
*Krishna* to Gargya. Though you said Caste that word did not exist in the
Vedic period; even, even dated Gruhya sutrams did not mention that word;
Upanishads do not; may be after the advent of the Buddhism, Jainism Various
rulers of India may be 500 BCE, the word JATI came; so, as such can we use
Varna only?; Rama Kshatriya varna and Krishna Shudra-Vaishya-Kshatriya
varna (what is yadava today?) ; religion for both of them Dharma; and for
both family did exist. And both had spoken about themselves as not Brahmam.
2 I thought, what did the Lord say about them all? Let us see B G.
1 2: 12
*na tv evaham jatu nasam na tvam neme janadhipah na caiva na bhavisyamah
sarve vayam atah param *Never was there a time when I *did not exist,* nor
you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.{
Rebirth and avataram etc are repetitive; Hinduism is cyclic}
2 2.13
*dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati *As the embodied soul continually passes, in this
body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into *another
body *at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.
{Rebirth and ed of rebirth stressed}
3 2.20 For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once
been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing,
undying and primeval. He is not slain *when the body is slain.* {soul is
not reborn but gives and takes back the life of the body and remains a
witness} 4 As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, similarly,
the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones.
(2.22) {*Soul has no identification* but knows all dresses it worn as a
mute witness}
5 All created beings are *unmanifest *in their beginning, *manifest* in
their interim state, and *unmanifest *again when they are annihilated. So
what need is there for lamentation? 2.28 {yes, the question above is how
the manifestation is exhibited and hidden?]
6 Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of the
Vedas, which recommend various *fruitive activities* for elevation to
heavenly planets, resultant good birth, power, and so forth. *Being
desirous of sense gratification and opulent life, they say that there is
nothing more than this.* (2. 42,43) {Vedas recommending the kamya yagnas
are reminded}
7 The Vedas *mainly *deal with the subject of the *three modes of
material nature.* Rise above these modes, O Arjuna. Be transcendental to
all of them. Be free from all dualities and from all anxieties for gain and
safety, and be established in the Self. (2.45) {Vedas have both the kamya
and nishkamya karma; Arjuna is asked to* rise to that level of the
nishkamya sense of duty}*
8 All purposes that are served by the small pond can at once be served
by the great reservoirs of water. Similarly, all the purposes of the Vedas
can be served to one who knows the purpose behind them. (2.46) {which is
the small and which is the big pond, is the *flow of life*?}.
9 You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not
entitled to the *fruits of action*. Never consider yourself to be the cause
of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your
duty. (2.47) {Crux of the life to live trouble free; where the ego is
absent as a cause, there is no effect of any emotions}
10 One who is not disturbed in spite of the threefold miseries, who is not
elated when there is happiness, and who is free from attachment, fear and
anger, is called a sage of steady mind. (2.56) *{sthitha pragnan}*
11 From anger, delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory.
When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is
lost, one falls down again into the material pool. (2.63) *{cause and
effect]*
12 Not by merely abstaining from work can one achieve freedom from
reaction, nor by *renunciation alone* can one attain perfection. (3.4)
{doing an action or not doing that leads to the cause and effect, as that
was taken as a Kamya karma; hence when one takes a decision by free will,
whatever be the effect one has to endure whether good or bad}
13 Perform your prescribed duty, for *action is better than inaction.* A
man cannot even maintain his physical body without work. (3.8)
14 The demigods, being pleased by sacrifices, will also please you; thus
nourishing one another, there will reign *general prosperity for all.*
(3.11) {welfare activities include demigods’ activities which includes the
ancestors also} 15 The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of
sins because they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others,
who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin. (3.13)
16 Regulated activities are prescribed in the Vedas, and the Vedas are
directly manifested from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Consequently,
the all-pervading Transcendence is eternally situated in acts of sacrifice.
(3.15) {Regulated activities include all *40 samskaras , Gotras etc}.* 17.
Even kings like Janaka and others attained the perfectional stage by
performance of prescribed duties. Therefore, just for the sake of educating
the people in general, you should perform your work.} (3.20)
18 The intricacies of action are very *hard to understand.* Therefore, one
should know properly *what action is, what forbidden action is*, and what
inaction is. (4.17)
19. All these different types of *sacrifice are approved by the Vedas*, and
all of them are born of different types of work. Knowing them as such, you
will become liberated. (4.32)
20 *Therefore, one who has renounced the fruits of his action, whose doubts
are destroyed by transcendental knowledge, and who is situated firmly in
the self, is not bound by works, O conqueror of riches. (4.41)*
*21 A man must elevate himself by his own mind, not degrade himself. The
mind is the friend of the conditioned soul, and his enemy as well. (6.5)
{that is why Rama and Krishna showed us that way of life}*
22 Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false
ego—altogether these eight comprise My separated material *energies.* (7.4)
(refer to Brihadaranyaka Upanishad chap 2,3 ASHTA vasukkal, Rudra 11 etc
whose questions are answered by Yagnavalkya)
23 According to the Vedas, there are two ways of passing from this
world—one in light and one in darkness. When one passes in light, he does
not come back; but when one passes in darkness, he returns. (8.26) {why
samskaras came into vogue.}
24 But it is *I who am the ritual, the sacrifice, the offering to the
ancestors, the healing herb, the transcendental chant.* I am the butter and
the fire and the offering. (9.16) {when all are Maya, even Gotra,
caste(varna), rituals are also Brahmam}
25 The seven great sages and before them the four other great sages and the
Manus *[progenitors of mankind]* *are born out of My mind, and all
creatures in these planets descend from them.* (10.6) {Origin of Gothras}
26 The Super soul is the *original source of all senses*, yet He is without
senses. He is unattached, although He is the maintainer of all living
beings. He transcends the modes of nature, and at the same time He is the
master of all modes of material nature. (13.15). {all Upanishads speak of
and Maha Vakyas includes all of them]
27 *Nature is said to be the cause of all material activities and effects*,
whereas the living entity is the cause of the various sufferings and
enjoyments in this world. (13.21)
28 That gift which is given out of duty, at the proper time and place, to a
worthy person, and without expectation of return, is considered to be
charity in the mode of goodness. (17.20)
29 But sacrifices, austerities and charities performed *without faith* in
the Supreme are *non-permanent,* O son of Prtha, regardless of whatever
rites are performed. *They are called Asat and are useless both in this
life and the next.* (17.28)
30 All these activities should be performed *without any expectation* of
result. They should be performed as a matter of duty, O son of Prtha. That
is My final opinion. (18.6)
31 And that understanding which *cannot* distinguish between the religious
way of life and the irreligious, between action that should be done and
action that should not be done, that imperfect understanding, O son of
Pritha, is in the mode of *passion.* (18.31)
32 Brahmanas, kshatriyas, vaishyas and shudras are distinguished by
their *qualities
of work*, O chastiser of the enemy, in accordance with the *modes of
nature.* (18.41) [ not caste]
3 * Conclusion:* So, origin of the Gotras and Varnas are explained
properly; Family is tuned in the birth to death in the Karma Yoga; Religion
is not perhaps was in India till 1600 AD and so creators were outsiders as
the caste. Soul, super soul and modes are all explained in here above.
Hence, Soul is no way connected to the duality needs of the identifications
of the person under the Gotra, Varna (Jati, caste), Religion and Family.
Apart from these above, Vedas, Brihadaranyaka Upanishad chap 2, Keno,
Katha, Chandogya Upanishads, speak about them; even Buddhism and Jainism do
say some thing about these. Even the charawakas under those conditions of
life give freedom in our scriptures. K R IRS 61120
On Mon, 2 Nov 2020 at 16:19, vaidyanathan sitaraman [email protected]
[Pattars] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Respected Sir,
>
> All the Vedas say that what we see in the mirror are not we. and the
> Vedas equate us to SOUL.
> We also know that the soul is always present and there is no birth or
> death for soul. It is understood from here that none of the parents can
> make the soul. Then where is the question of Gothras, cast and religion
> and even family.
>
> S.Vaidyanathan
>
> __._,_.___
> ------------------------------
> Posted by: vaidyanathan sitaraman <[email protected]>
> ------------------------------
> Reply via web post
> <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Pattars/conversations/messages/12220;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbXFhM2ZkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3ODUzNTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NjY2MDE0BG1zZ0lkAzEyMjIwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTYwNDMxNDEzNQ--?act=reply&messageNum=12220>
> • Reply to sender
> <[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20GOTHRA%20SAGES%205> • Reply to
> group <[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20GOTHRA%20SAGES%205> • Start
> a New Topic
> <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Pattars/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlajNyYXI1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3ODUzNTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NjY2MDE0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTYwNDMxNDEzNQ-->
> • Messages in this topic
> <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Pattars/conversations/topics/12210;_ylc=X3oDMTM2dmQxajhtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3ODUzNTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NjY2MDE0BG1zZ0lkAzEyMjIwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTYwNDMxNDEzNQR0cGNJZAMxMjIxMA-->
> (3)
> *********************************************************
> ** **
> ** read more about Pattars @ www.KeralaIyers.com **
> ** **
> *********************************************************
> Visit Your Group
> <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Pattars/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbzN0cDVuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3ODUzNTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NjY2MDE0BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTYwNDMxNDEzNQ-->
>
>
> [image: Yahoo! Groups]
> <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkOTJjYXJzBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzI3ODUzNTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NjY2MDE0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNjA0MzE0MTM1>
> • Privacy <https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html> •
> Unsubscribe <[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe> • Terms
> of Use <https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/>
>
> .
>
> __,_._,___
>
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Thatha_Patty" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/CAL5XZorUBP%2Bni0yh7hsTb8RsTM8N8znP0toBEbjbeXYThbmiXw%40mail.gmail.com.
