Pranam
The Indian American head of neuro research at Sandiego CA USA renowned
scholar who can quote Tamil, Malayalam and sanskrit verses but tagged to
science strictly is a scholar so renowned in this line. I met him once when
i was in san diego on a picnic and a brief session revealed his
interests in breaking the brain concept; but one word astounded me is
(though an Indian by birth and fastidious scientist as any other USA man) A
LONG WAY TO GO . Then one can understand that what Indian Rishis did in a
small time is greater and economical rather than the huge money spent to
understand the cliche of the brain and electric charges. A lot of his
speech can be seen in the Youtube videos, once you type vilayanur. I had
written about his books and speeches long back in 2010 ?. KR IRS 291220 I
have that book sir.
NB: Q Dr. Vilayanur Ramachandran who has done prodigious work on the brain
in his book “A Brief Tour of the Consciousness “ at pages 86/89 discusses
free will. Some experiments have shown that there is no free will.But they
cannot explain why and how?
KR: Freewill according to me does not exist though Krishna advocated the
freewill to act leaving the action and result to HIM. The difference of 5
and 6 senses is that. Thinking is a process arising out of the samkalpayate'
atha manasyati, atha vacam-irayati tam u namnirayati; Will is Karmic
according to me; yet coming to think of freewill advocated in B G is that
action self propelled; samples:
Galileo’s principle. It comes in the *Dialogo:*
*Shut yourself up with some friend in the main cabin below decks on some
large ship, and have with you there some flies, butterflies, and other
small flying animals. Have a large bowl of water with some fish in it; hang
up a bottle that empties drop by drop into a wide vessel beneath it. With
the ship standing still, observe carefully how the little animals fly with
equal speed to all sides of the cabin. The fish swim indifferently in all
directions; the drops fall into the vessel beneath; and, in throwing
something to your friend, you need throw it no more strongly in one
direction than another, the distances being equal; jumping with your feet
together, you pass equal spaces in every direction. When you have observed
all these things carefully (though doubtless when the ship is standing
still everything must happen in this way), have the ship proceed with any
speed you like, so long as the motion is uniform and not fluctuating this
way and that. You will discover not the least change in all the effects
named, nor could you tell from any of them whether the ship was moving or
standing still.*
This interpretation is supported later in the *Dialogo* when Galileo
puts forward a theory of the tides, which he (erroneously) puts down to
hydrodynamic effects from the motion of the earth. The existence of this
theory shows that his relativity principle is not meant to apply to
everything.
When we get to Newton, we see a similar principle of Relativity being put
forward. And Newton even gives a nod to Galileo by bringing up the same
example of a ship in his General Scholium of the *Principia*. But for
Newton, the principle of relativity is not a good thing at all, it’s an
annoyance. Newton believed in absolute space and time, and thus in absolute
motion. And it’s a huge embarrassment to him that his own laws imply that
“true, absolute motion” cannot be distinguished from “mere relative motion”.
Maxwell’s theory of electromagnetism. And it had a striking prediction:
that light moved only at one particular speed. This made it look as though
Galileo and Newton had been right to be cautious when they claimed only
that their principles held within mechanics.
Einstein thought otherwise:
*They suggest rather that, as has already been shown to the first order of
small quantities, the same laws of electrodynamics and optics will be valid
for all frames of reference for which the equations of mechanics hold good.
We will raise this conjecture (the purport of which will hereafter be
called the “Principle of Relativity”) to the status of a postulate…This is
what made Einstein famous.*
The freewill is that aspect one pushes forward that triggers the
thinking; the thinking stops, go wild, reach farthest wrong directions; or
Eureka the right one which is out of Karma as others were also out of
Karma; but the freewill initiates one which cause the inequalisation among
the equals in the nature; hence Bhagavan says that THESE START FROM THE
PRAKRITHI. So Free Will is not beyond the karma but yet exists; when ego is
fanned the freewill becomes atheism; the right one after struggles towards
the right road. Vilayanur is also struggling about the same thing.
On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 at 11:22, sivaraman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dr. Vilayanur Ramachandran who has done prodigious work on the brain in
> his book “A Brief Tour of the Conciousness “ at pages 86/89 discusses about
> free will. Some experiments have shown that there is no free will.But they
> cannot explain why and how?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 29-Dec-2020, at 10:21, Rajaram Krishnamurthy <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
> Pranam
> Chandokya upanishad thinks your thinking in nice verses as seen
> below: Pibare rama rasam:
> SECTION 3: MIND
>
> 1. Mono vava vaco bhuyah, yatha vai dve vamalake dve va kole dvau
> vaksau mistir-anubhavati, evam vacam ca nama ca mano'nu-bhavati, sa yada
> manasa manasyati, mantran-adhiyiyeti, athadhite, karmani kurviyeti, atha
> kurute, putrams-ca pasumsceccheyeti, athecchate, imam ca lokam amum
> ceccheyeti, athecchate, mano-hy-atma, mano-hi loko mano hi brahma, mano
> upassveti.
> 2. Sa yo mano brahmetyupste yavan-manaso gatam tatrasya yatha kamacaro
> bhavati yo mano brahmetyupaste 'sti bhagavo manaso bhuya iti manaso vava
> bhuyo'stiti tanme bhagavan bravatviti.
>
> Beyond speech, and superior to speech, is the mind. Here is glorification
> of the functions of the mind, the capacity of the mind. Mind is superior,
> naturally, because unless the mind functions well, there would be no
> speech, no nomenclature and no learning. "Just as," says Sanatkumara, "two
> small fruits like mulberry or berry can be held together in the fist of the
> hand, just as the palm of one's hand folded contains within its fold two
> small fruits or objects, so does the mind contain within itself both speech
> and name." Speech and name are contained within the mind. This is the power
> of the mind. Whatever we do, we do only through the mind. We know it very
> well. We think first before we express ourselves in speech or utter a name.
> We think, "Let me do work," and then we start working. We think, "Let me
> have this, and let me have that," and then we put forth effort in that
> direction. We begin to perform various types of actions in this world,
> after thinking first. So, thinking is prior to every other deed or effort.
>
> Mind is supreme in life. It is well known to every one of us. The mind is
> practically our own self. When we refer to ourselves usually, in practical
> life, we are referring to the mind only. "It is me," we say. What do we
> mean by "me"? We are referring to the mind, nothing more than that. And
> mind has assumed the selfhood, by superimposition of characters. Selfhood
> really does not belong to the mind. As the mirror shines in sunlight, so
> does the mind assume selfhood by the transference of the character of the
> Self into itself. So, for all practical purposes in life, mind is the self
> and it is the individuality within us. The mind is responsible for anything
> that we achieve in this world or in the other world, because what we call
> world is nothing but the field of experience. The range of our experience
> is the world in which we are living. And all the experiences of our life
> are nothing but the expression of the actions that we perform, behind which
> there is the mind that thinks. So, our world of experience is actually
> controlled and directed by the mind. Therefore we may say that, in a sense,
> mind is the world. "As the mind is yourself in this empirical realm, O
> Narada, meditate on mind as Brahman, the Absolute," says Sanatkumara.
>
> Whatever the mind can think, that should be brought within the purview of
> the object of meditation. This is perhaps the last stage which ordinary
> people can reach in meditation. What can they do beyond the level of the
> thoughts of their mind? So, we should try to find out what are the
> possibilities of the mind, and bring all of them together into a stage of
> harmony, in an artistic manner. The pattern of thought should be beautiful.
> It should be complete. This is the meaning of the term 'absolute' here. We
> have to remember this again. The absolute is the completeness of any
> particular concept, whatever the concept be. So here, we have to reach the
> ultimate point possible by the mind. The arrangement of the conceptual
> objects should be such that nothing should be left out of purview. The
> reason for the movement of the mind away from the object chosen for
> meditation is the presence of a subtle feeling within, that there is
> something outside the object-beyond it, above it, higher than it. The mind
> should include every blessed thing, so that there is no chance of the mind
> going away from the object. The mental object here is not any particular
> symbol of a physical object, but includes everything that the mind can
> think. This is the object of meditation instructed in this section.
>
> "So, O Narada, here you are in the mental realm of meditation. Consider
> mind as all, and master it in such a way that it becomes one with your
> Being, and does not remain merely an external function of your outward
> living over which you have no control. It is yours. You are a master of
> your mind; it has become you," says Sanatkumara.
>
> This generally does not happen in practical life. Though we say that the
> mind is "me", we are not masters of the mind. There are many occasions when
> it is revealed to us, to our surprise and sorrow, that the mind is not our
> self, though wrongly we do say, "my mind is me". If mind is "me", well, I
> should be a complete master of it. But it is not the case. As the wind
> blows, the mind goes in various directions, and we are drifted in the
> direction of the wind of the mind. So the mind acts as a master. It does
> not act as our own Self. So it is not true that the mind is the true Self.
> But it has to be absorbed into the Self in meditation in order that it gets
> controlled. Complete control of a particular thing is exercised only to the
> extent of the absorption of that particular thing into one's own Self.
> Anything that is one with us is controlled by us, and of that we are
> masters. We are not masters of anything that is outside us. So, in the
> realm of the mind, we should be masters. We should control the mind
> completely and rule over it, by identification of our true Being with
> everything that the mind can think. This is one stage in the process of
> meditation.
>
> "Revered Sir, is there anything greater than mind?" asks Narada, and
> Sanatkumara replies, "Yes, surely there is will, *sankalpa,* which is
> greater than mind."
> SECTION 4: WILL
>
> In the gradation of meditation, we have seen that the mind is superior to
> the function of speech, of which all the names are manifestations, because
> from the mind proceed all psychological activities and everything that is
> expressed through speech. But, behind the mind also, there are forces which
> are more concentrated in their nature, and by an analysis of the activities
> of the mind, we will realise that this is the activity of specified
> thought. There is a creative will operating as the directive intelligence.
> This 'will' is termed *sankalpa* in Sanskrit. A determination or will in
> the mind precedes action. So, 'will' is prior to the general thinking
> faculty of the mind.
>
> 1. Samkalpo vava manaso bhuyan-yada vai samkalpayate' atha manasyati,
> atha vacam-irayati tam u namnirayati, namni mantra ekam bhavanti, mantresu
> karmani.
>
> Will, which is creative in its character, is superior to ordinary thought.
> When there is a will or a determined activity of the psychological organ,
> there arises the general thinking of the mind. Then follows the expression
> thereof by means of speech. Everything that we utter or recite or chant is
> a form of speech. And the quintessence of speech in its most sacred form is
> the body of *mantras* in the Vedas. The *mantras* contained in the texts
> called Brahmanas in the Vedas direct men to specified actions by means of
> injunctions. The *mantras* are like fire, great forces of directive
> intelligence. The *mantras* imply within themselves indications as to how
> they are to be utilised in a particular performance. So, actions which lead
> to specific results and the consequent experiences in life are all rooted
> in the hints given in the *mantras* themselves, which are specified modes
> of the expression of speech, which again is rooted in the mind, which in
> its turn is directed by the will, the creative intelligence.
>
> So, this is the gradation given so far. Everything is rooted in the will,
> ultimately. Will is a general term which comprehends within itself any kind
> of specified intention, whether it works internally in the individual's
> personality or externally in nature. Here, the Upanishad tells us that
> everything has a specific intention behind its very existence itself. Even
> the five elements—space, air, fire, water and earth—are but specified forms
> of an ultimate creative will. Their manifestations in different intensities
> and the differences in the intensities of their manifestations are due to
> the differentiating character which is inherent in each of these elements.
> That differentiating character is the will hidden behind them. The will to
> be, the will to live, the will to exist, the will to maintain individuality
> is the power which distinguishes one element from the other. Otherwise,
> there would be a merger of the elements and one element would not be
> different from the other.
>
> 1. Tani ha va etani samkalpaikayanani samkalpatmakani samkalpe
> pratisthitani, samaklpatam dyava-prthivi, samakalpetam vayu-scakasam ca,
> samkalpantapas-ca tejas-ca, tesam samklptyai varsam samkalpate, varsasya
> samklptya annam samkalpate annasya samklptyai pranah samkalpante sprananam
> samklptyai mantrah samkalpante, mantramam samklptyai karmani samkalpante,
> karmanam samklptyai lokah samkalpate, lokasya samklptyai sarvam
> samkcalpate, sa esa samkalpah samkalpam upassveti.
>
> There is nothing in this world, in all creation, which is free from a
> self-assertive will, a self-determining power. So, 'will' is a universal
> power. Anything that asserts itself in a particular manner is called
> 'will'. This self-assertive nature is found in every atom of creation, in
> the heaven and the earth, in the wind and the space, in fire and water and
> in their further modifications, in our own bodies such as the working of
> the *pranas* and their further motivations like the recitation of
> *mantras* which*,* as has been pointed out already, become responsible
> for the actions that we do and the results that follow therefrom. The whole
> world, therefore, is rooted in will. The world is will in generality as
> well as in particularity. In certain forms of generality, the will becomes
> a content of our awareness. When it becomes too general, as in the will of
> God, for instance, it is not the content of our mind. However, the will is
> behind everything. This is the point that is driven home here. Therefore,
> Narada is instructed that higher than the mind, there is the will, and that
> he should direct his meditation or contemplation to the extent to which his
> will can reach.
>
> 1. Sa yah samkalpam brahmety-upaste klptan-vai sa lokandhruvan dhruvah
> pratisthitan pratiisthito'vyathamanan-avyathamano abhisidhyati,
> yavat-samkalpasya gatam tatrasya yatha kamacaro bhavati, yah samkalpam
> brahmety-upaste, asti, bhagavah, samkalpad-bhuya iti, samkalpad-vava
> bhuyo'stiti, tanme, bhagavan, bravitviti.
>
> Will, therefore, has to be contemplated upon as absolute in its operation.
> One who contemplates in this manner or practises meditation in this way
> attains to regions which are capable of access by the extent of the will
> applied in these forms of meditation. One becomes fixed or rooted in one's
> own will and that which one reaches or experiences by means of this
> meditation also becomes equally firm or firmly fixed. These experiences
> will no more be transient, as the other things of the world are. The person
> who is rooted in such a will is not distressed in any manner whatsoever.
> The regions that he reaches also are free from any kind of distress. To the
> extent of the reach of his will, he shall achieve success in this world,
> and his success, therefore, depends upon the intensity of his will, the
> comprehensiveness of his will, and the clarity of his will. To that extent
> he will be free, he will be successful, and he will enjoy life-*yatha
> kamacaro bhavati.* This is the result that follows from meditation on the
> content of will, to the extent it can reach.
>
> Narada queries, "Is this all, or is there something more than will?" "Yes,
> surely there is something more than will," says Sanatkumara. "But what is
> that? May I listen to it, great master? Please instruct me further, beyond
> will," requests Narada.
> SECTION 5: MEMORY
>
> 1. Cittam vava samkalpad-bhuyah, yada vai cetayate'tha samkalpayate,
> atha manasyati, atha vacam irayati, tam u namnirayati, namni mantra ekam
> bhavanti, mantresu karmani.
>
> The will, no doubt, is a determining psychological function. But the will
> cannot operate unless there is a cohesive force behind the functions of
> thought. Will is nothing but a collected focussing of the content of the
> mind. When the mind is directed and focussed in a particular manner, in a
> specified way, in a particular direction, we call it will. But this
> function of the mind which we call will would not be possible unless there
> is another capacity which we call memory. A person who is bereft of memory,
> and cannot even remember what took place one second before, cannot divert
> the will in any particular manner. Because the capacity of remembrance or
> retention of experiences, and the ability to maintain in one's own mind an
> awareness of the target towards which the will is going to be directed, are
> both necessary before the will rises up in the mind. This function which is
> precedent to the rise of the will is called *chitta.* It is the
> mind-stuff, as we may call it, which is the very basic root of all
> psychological functions. Will is a specific manifestation. There is a
> generality behind it and that is *chitta.* Beyond the will is *chitta,* the
> power of memory and retention. Only when one has presence of mind, one can
> direct one's will. Then only one can think, then only one can speak, then
> only name, a specific modification of speech, is manifested. In the name,
> *mantras,* sacred formulae, sacrifices and other actions become one. And
> from actions proceed their results, all in a continuous chain.
>
> 1. Tani ha va etani cittaikayanani cittatmani citte pratisthitani
> tasmad-yady-api bahu-vid-acitto bhavati, nayam astityevainam ahuh yad-ayam
> veda, yad-va ayam vidvannettam acittah syad-iti, atha
> yady-alpa-vicchittavan bhavati, tasma evota susrusante, cittam hy-evaisam
> ekayanam, cittam atma, cittam pratistha cittam upassveti.
>
> Everything is rooted in memory. All learning is ultimately memory, because
> it is the retention in the mind of whatever we have seen or heard or
> thought. Whatever be our learning, if our memory has failed, people say,
> "This person is nothing." Whatever be our education or acquisition of
> knowledge in its extensiveness, if we have lost all memory power, it is as
> good as nothing. All knowledge will practically vanish from us. So memory
> is very important. "If he was really learned, why does he not remember
> anything?"-people pose this question. They say, "He poses himself as very
> learned, but he cannot say anything; now, what sort of learning is this?"
> So, they repudiate the very learning of a person merely because of the
> absence of memory in that person. If we have strong memory power, whatever
> we speak will carry conviction. People listen to such a person, not to the
> other one who calls himself learned but cannot remember anything. So the
> personality is ultimately rooted in *chitta,* the capacity of
> remembering, which retains in itself all that is valuable in the form of
> one's learning or in the form of any type of experience in life.
> "Therefore, O Narada, you have to hold that *chitta,* memory, is superior
> to will. So contemplate the content of the *chitta* which is superior to
> will. Let this be the object of your meditation."
>
> 1. Sa yas-cittam brahmety-upaste, cittan vai sa lokan dhruvan dhruvah
> pratisthitan pratisthito'vyathamanan avyathamano'bhisidhyati, yavat
> cittasya gatam, tatrasya yatha kamacaro bhavati, yas-cittam brahety-upaste,
> asti, bhagavah, cittadbhuya iti, citted vava bhuyo'stiti, tan-me, bhagavan,
> bravitviti.
>
> The expansiveness of memory is larger than the content of will. Therefore,
> one who meditates on the content of memory attains all those realms which
> are capable of being reached by the operation of memory, and then enjoys
> identity of oneself with those realms. One becomes free and successful to
> the extent of the operation of one's memory. "Therefore let that be your
> meditation; this is the stage to which you have reached now by way of
> analysis and practice," says Sanatkumara. Narada is highly satisfied, but
> puts a question again, "Is there anything beyond *chitta*?" Sanatkumara
> answers, "There is something beyond that also." Though *chitta* is
> superior to the other functions, viz., name, speech, mind and will, already
> mentioned, it is inferior to something beyond that. Narada now wants to
> know what that is. (courtesy sivananda center) K R IRS 291220
>
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 at 22:28, Markendeya Yeddanapudi <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Mar*The Fretting Mind
>>
>>
>>
>> Thinking is the innate art of facilitating nature, to flash into you
>> solutions via breathing. Breathing creates the emotion store that helps in
>> automatically responding to problems, courageously and correctly. Very
>> often the mind creates only hesitations bordering on cowardice and often it
>> creates only worry. When there is a problem, one needs to go into thick and
>> free nature, where if one is positive, one gathers the positive ions, which
>> team up around you and give clear revelatory solutions, which one feels and
>> after sometime one gets the solution flash into the mind.
>>
>> Thinking needs stilling the mind so that it does not create fretting in
>> the name of contemplating on the pros and cons. Continuous listing of the
>> pros and cons creates only indecision and worry, where the mind blocks
>> nature from giving the solution laden emotion. Facts must be gathered but
>> not for stagnating in the mind only. Problem stagnation in the mind without
>> allowing one’s breathing to create the emotions that ultimately flash
>> solutions is the basis of neurosis.
>>
>> One’s real mind is in thick and free nature only, and one gets that real
>> mind by breathing and sensing. Nature always helps, because actually nature
>> is the collective perception of the Biosphere as a whole and all organisms
>> breathe and sense and communicate by smells. If nature is God, then God is
>> always available, unless his limbs, forests are cut, water poisoned, air
>> poisoned into fume and land made barren by killing all soil bacteria with
>> pesticides. As we have crippled nature, nature no longer solves our
>> problems.
>>
>> The mind today no longer flashes solutions, making it the organ that
>> frets and worries, all of which is called reasoning. With nature inactive
>> and sick, the body is disabled from breathing solutions.
>>
>> Now artificial intelligence or Robots are taking over. But can one escape
>> totally from one’s own mind, a mind starved of the basic emotional feed via
>> breathing?
>>
>> The basic message of science today, not expressed in so many words is
>> that all solutions are completely technological, and everything including
>> God is only a machine. With half the forests of the world already murdered,
>> and the remaining forests subjected to the cutting machines every minute,
>> the disappearance of photosynthesis is fast approaching. When the Sun is
>> thus blocked from converting the photons into consumable energy, through
>> the basic photon-synthesis, which machine is going to create the photon
>> embedded food artificially, without trees and plants?
>>
>> We are not even focussing on this engulfing catastrophe, and the suited
>> and booted Basmasuras, are happily giving lectures about the behaviour of
>> the various economic curves, curves displayed by the dictating computers.
>>
>> YM
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> .
>>
>
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