Pranam
Q Now we have given the work of perception to machines, which are
programmed to follow the Cartesian logic. And we feel superior because we
are scientific (lunatic?).
KR *Science and the Indian Tradition: When Einstein Met Tagore*
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0415481341/braipick-20> (*public
library*
<https://www.worldcat.org/title/science-and-the-indian-tradition-when-einstein-met-tagore/oclc/74029359&referer=brief_results>)
recounts the historic encounter, amidst a broader discussion of the
intellectual renaissance that swept India in the early twentieth century,
germinating a curious osmosis of Indian traditions and secular Western
scientific doctrine. (dated 14/7/1930):
Definitions of science
<https://www.themarginalian.org/2012/04/06/what-is-science/>, beauty
<https://www.themarginalian.org/2010/11/17/denis-dutton-darwinian-theory-of-beauty/>
, consciousness
<https://www.themarginalian.org/2012/04/26/john-searle-on-consciousness/>,
and philosophy
<https://www.themarginalian.org/2012/04/09/what-is-philosophy/> in a
masterful meditation on the most fundamental questions of human existence.
1 EINSTEIN: Do you believe in the Divine as isolated from the world?
TAGORE: Not isolated. The infinite personality of Man comprehends
the Universe. There cannot be anything that cannot be subsumed by the human
personality, and this proves that the Truth of the Universe is human Truth.
Matter is composed of protons and electrons, with gaps between them; but
matter may seem to be solid. Similarly humanity is composed of individuals,
yet they have their interconnection of human relationship, which gives
living unity to man’s world. The entire universe is linked up with us in a
similar manner, it is a human universe. I have pursued this thought through
art, literature and the religious consciousness of man.
2 EINSTEIN: There are two different conceptions about the nature of the
universe: (1) The world as a unity dependent on humanity. (2) The world as
a reality independent of the human factor.
TAGORE: When our universe is in harmony with Man, the eternal, we know it
as Truth, we feel it as beauty.
EINSTEIN: This is the purely human conception of the universe.
TAGORE: There can be no other conception. This world is a human world — the
scientific view of it is also that of the scientific man. There is some
standard of reason and enjoyment which gives it Truth, the standard of the
Eternal Man whose experiences are through our experiences.
EINSTEIN: This is a realization of the human entity.
TAGORE: Yes, one eternal entity. We have to realize it through our emotions
and activities. We realized the Supreme Man who has no individual
limitations through our limitations. Science is concerned with that which
is not confined to individuals; it is the impersonal human world of Truths.
Religion realizes these Truths and links them up with our deeper needs; our
individual consciousness of Truth gains universal significance. Religion
applies values to Truth, and we know this Truth as good through our own
harmony with it.
3 EINSTEIN: Truth, then, or Beauty is not independent of Man?
TAGORE: No.
EINSTEIN: If there would be no human beings any more, the Apollo of
Belvedere would no longer be beautiful.
TAGORE: No.
4 EINSTEIN: I agree with regard to this conception of Beauty, but not
with regard to Truth.
TAGORE: Why not? Truth is realized through man.
EINSTEIN: I cannot prove that my conception is right, but that is my
religion.
TAGORE: Beauty is in the ideal of perfect harmony which is in the Universal
Being; Truth the perfect comprehension of the Universal Mind. We
individuals approach it through our own mistakes and blunders, through our
accumulated experiences, through our illumined consciousness — how,
otherwise, can we know Truth?
5 EINSTEIN: I cannot prove scientifically that Truth must be conceived
as a Truth that is valid independent of humanity; but I believe it firmly.
I believe, for instance, that the Pythagorean theorem in geometry states
something that is approximately true, independent of the existence of man.
Anyway, if there is a reality independent of man, there is also a Truth
relative to this reality; and in the same way the negation of the first
engenders a negation of the existence of the latter.
TAGORE: Truth, which is one with the Universal Being, must essentially be
human, otherwise whatever we individuals realize as true can never be
called truth – at least the Truth which is described as scientific and
which only can be reached through the process of logic, in other words, by
an organ of thoughts which is human. According to Indian Philosophy there
is Brahman, the absolute Truth, which cannot be conceived by the isolation
of the individual mind or described by words but can only be realized by
completely merging the individual in its infinity. But such a Truth cannot
belong to Science. The nature of Truth which we are discussing is an
appearance – that is to say, what appears to be true to the human mind and
therefore is human, and may be called *maya* or illusion.
6 EINSTEIN: So according to your conception, which may be the Indian
conception, it is not the illusion of the individual, but of humanity as a
whole.
TAGORE: The species also belongs to a unity, to humanity. Therefore the
entire human mind realizes Truth; the Indian or the European mind meet in a
common realization.
EINSTEIN: The word species is used in German for all human beings, as a
matter of fact, even the apes and the frogs would belong to it.
TAGORE: In science we go through the discipline of eliminating the personal
limitations of our individual minds and thus reach that comprehension of
Truth which is in the mind of the Universal Man.
7 EINSTEIN: The problem begins whether Truth is independent of our
consciousness.
TAGORE: What we call truth lies in the rational harmony between the
subjective and objective aspects of reality, both of which belong to the
super-personal man.
EINSTEIN: Even in our everyday life we feel compelled to ascribe a reality
independent of man to the objects we use. We do this to connect the
experiences of our senses in a reasonable way. For instance, if nobody is
in this house, yet that table remains where it is.
TAGORE: Yes, it remains outside the individual mind, but not the universal
mind. The table which I perceive is perceptible by the same kind of
consciousness which I possess.
8 EINSTEIN: If nobody would be in the house the table would exist all
the same — but this is already illegitimate from your point of view —
because we cannot explain what it means that the table is there,
independently of us.
TAGORE: Science has proved that the table as a solid object is an
appearance and therefore that which the human mind perceives as a table
would not exist if that mind were naught. At the same time it must be
admitted that the fact, that the ultimate physical reality is nothing but a
multitude of separate revolving centres of electric force, also belongs to
the human mind.
In the apprehension of Truth there is an eternal conflict between the
universal human mind and the same mind confined in the individual. The
perpetual process of reconciliation is being carried on in our science,
philosophy, in our ethics. In any case, if there be any Truth absolutely
unrelated to humanity then for us it is absolutely non-existing.
It is not difficult to imagine a mind to which the sequence of things
happens not in space but only in time like the sequence of notes in music.
For such a mind such conception of reality is akin to the musical reality
in which Pythagorean geometry can have no meaning. There is the reality of
paper, infinitely different from the reality of literature. For the kind of
mind possessed by the moth which eats that paper literature is absolutely
non-existent, yet for Man’s mind literature has a greater value of Truth
than the paper itself. In a similar manner if there be some Truth which has
no sensuous or rational relation to the human mind, it will ever remain as
nothing so long as we remain human beings.
9 EINSTEIN: Then I am more religious than you are!
TAGORE: My religion is in the reconciliation of the Super-personal Man, the
universal human spirit, in my own individual being.
10 KR E=MC2 is a religion based on the vedic principles where the
energy and evolution spoken in Nasadiya suktam of the rig vedam, where E= 0
tending to infinity; E=1 and E =different quantum. Known tip of the ice
berg. KR IRS 17322
On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 at 08:56, Markendeya Yeddanapudi <
[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> --
> *Mar**Critical Analysis?*
>
> The visible spectrum is less than one percent of the electromagnetic
> spectrum. More than 99% of the spectrum is the invisible spectrum, the
> arena of feeling without seeing, the arena of breathing, smelling, sensing
> and perceiving. Every other organism mainly depends on breathing and
> smelling. If we close our eyes, just breathe, then gradually you develop
> the habit of perceiving by smelling. All the other organisms are dominated,
> because they cannot conceptualize without smelling.
>
> Breathing and smelling creates, the symbiotic feelings that create the
> propelling emotions. The air gets filled with smell messages and the
> resulting emotion triggers, the triggers of God. The innocence or belief in
> God can be maintained throughout life if one does not depend on the so
> called critical analysis, mainly dependent on the visible spectrum. The
> loss of belief or the loss of innocence of the childhood, is the ultimate
> foundational loss, we impose on ourselves, with the glorified critical
> analysis.
>
> We are all born with innocence, the childhood belief, where the Biosphere
> helps by continuously feeding the symbiotic smell messages.
>
> Science scoffs at this emotional aspect of the invisible spectrum. It
> forces dependence on the visible spectrum mainly. As we cannot avoid
> breathing, we cannot avoid emotions, but we bludgeon ourselves with map
> knowledge or the knowledge from books, while avoiding nature completely. We
> do not even realize that books really suffocate.
>
> God is there for smelling and sensing, but we kill God, by avoiding nature
> itself and by sinking in books, books which are the outcomes of dependence
> on the visible spectrum mainly.
>
> Now we have given the work of perception to machines, which are programmed
> to follow the Cartesian logic. And we feel superior because we are
> scientific (lunatic?).
>
> There are Gods everywhere, they need nature, and you can breathe, smell
> and sense success continuously, if only you do not carry out the economic
> murder of nature. At least plant trees, try to save nature, and if you are
> a victim made to believe that an apartment flat is a home, then at least
> try to accommodate birds wherever possible, from that prison.
>
> Just believe in the Reality, nature is God and you can breathe in success
> after success, get whatever positive, love based and altruistic you want,
> you get it.
>
> YM
>
>
>
>
>
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