Few verses of siva vakkiyar siddhar whose verses quoted below on the outset appears as if making fun of Vedas and Brahmins; but if you carefully look into it, it is nothing but similar to --ADISHANKARA was diverted by SIvA asking him which one you want me to move Body or soul? Now let's go into:
*Are there two Gods, yours and mine?* *Will there be two Gods, here and there?* *Primordial God, who is everywhere, isn’t he one?* *Those who say otherwise, will die of rotting mouth.* *எங்கள்தேவர்* *உங்கள்தேவர்* *என்றிரண்டு* *தேவரோ* *இங்குமங்கு* *மாய்* *இரண்டு* *தேவரே* *இருப்பரோ* *அங்குமிங்கு* *மாகிநின்ற* *ஆதிமூர்த்தி* *ஒன்றலோ* *வங்கவாரஞ்* *சொன்னபேர்கள்* *வாய்புழுத்து* *மாள்வரே**.* Sivavakkiyar, in this verse, curses those who try to split people in the name of God. He doesn’t pull back his punches. He says “If God is all powerful how can there be two Gods, yours and mine. He who was at the beginning, is one. Those who say otherwise, their tongues will rot and they’d die.” Siddhar Sivavakkiyar, dated to around 10th Century CE (?) was one of the leading rebel poets in Tamil literature. Siddhars were iconoclastic rebels whose thoughts were against the organised Vedic religion. Their main idea was one had to find God within oneself and not rely on temples and rituals. I’m not able to find the meaning of வங்கவாரம் . From the context of the verse, I assume it is “otherwise” or “divisive tales” *Siddhar – SivaVakkiyar – 80* <https://oldtamilpoetry.com/2018/04/16/siddhar-sivavakkiyar-80/> *When a clay vessel falls , they still save the shards;* *When a bronze vessel falls, they save it for future;* *When this mortal vessel falls, they discard it saying it smells;* *In such a worthless body that measures just eight hand spans, * *what an illusion of life you created, my Lord!* *மண்கலம்* *கவிழ்ந்த* *போது* *வைத்து* *வைத்து* *அடுக்குவார் **வெண்கலம்* *கவிழ்ந்த* *போது* *வேணும்* *என்று* *பேணுவார் **நண்கலம்* *கவிழ்ந்த* *போது* *நாறும்* *என்று* *போடுவார் **எண்கலந்து* *நின்ற* *மாயம்என்ன* *மாயம்* *ஈசனே**.* In this poem Siva Vakkiyar talks about the impermanence of human body. When a clay vessel falls and breaks, people still save the shards saying it might be useful some day. When a bronze vessel falls and is dented, they save it carefully for the future. But when this human body falls and dies, they immediately discard it saying it smells. In such a worthless body that measures just eight hand spans, what an illusion of life you created, My lord. In the fourth line he uses just ‘எண் – eight’ to mean this body that measures eight spans. Each human body measures eight hand spans of its own hand. In Tamil this word எண் சாண் – eight hand spans is understood easily. But in English translation I had to make it a separate sentence to explain. மண்கலம் – mud vessel வெண்கலம் – bronze நண்கலம் – நன் கலம் – good vessel / human body (This is no dictionary meaning. I’m extrapolating) எண் – eight (for eight hand spans) *Sivavakkiyar – 35* <https://oldtamilpoetry.com/2018/01/23/sivavakkiyar-35/> *What are temples? What are holy tanks?* *You misers worshipping in temples and tanks,* *temples and holy tanks are within one’s mind;* *Nothing, nothing, nothing is created or destroyed.* *கோயிலாவது* *ஏதடா* *குளங்களாவது* *ஏதடா * *கோயிலும்* *குளங்களும்* *கும்பிடும்* *குலாமரே * *கோயிலும்* *மனத்துளே* *குளங்களும்* *மனத்துளே * *ஆவதும்* *அழிவதும்* *இல்லைஇல்லை* *இல்லையே**.* Siddhar Sivavakkiyar, dated to around 10th Century CE was one of the leading rebel poets in Tamil literature. Siddhars were iconoclastic rebels whose thoughts were against the organised Vedic religion. Their main idea was one had to find God within oneself and not rely on temples and rituals. In these verses he chides those who go to temples and sacred tanks for salvation. He says find God within you and not in these temples and tanks. God can neither be created or destroyed by mortals. The last line I interpret it as “all that in this world only transforms into another form. There is nothing that is created new nor destroyed”. /Joke/Simply put, The first law of thermodynamics 🙂 குலாமர் – miser. *What am I? What are you? What’s that between(us two)?* *O’ materialists who answer what’s a ruler and what’s a guru –* *(do you know)What’s created? What’s destroyed? What’s the place* *that is beyond the beyond? It’s the name of Rama Rama Rama.* *நானதேது* *நீயதேது* *நடுவில்* *நின்றது* *ஏதடா* *கோனதேது* *குருவதேது* *கூறிடுங்* *குலாமரே* *ஆனதேது* *அழிவதேது* *அப்புறத்தில்* *அப்புறம்* *ஈனதேது* *ராமராம* *ராமஎன்ற* *நாமமே**.* What is this thing called you and that is called me? What is that thing between us two. You materialists can answer who is a Guru or who is a King. But can you answer What is created, what is destroyed or what is this place that is beyond the beyond? You can’t. The answer is the name of Rama, who is everything in this world. I am always worried about interpreting theological verses (especially Siddhar songs) as I do not know much of the philosophy behind these. So regular disclaimer applies. My interpretation might be wrong. கோன் – King / Chief குலாமர் – materialists / those who desire wealth ஈன் – this place *Vedic priests never ate fish, neither then nor now,* *isn’t fish inhabited water what they drink and bathe in?* *Vedic priests never ate deer meat, neither then nor now,* *isn’t sacred thread worn over deer skin*?* *Vedic priests never ate goat meat, neither then nor now,* *isn’t goat meat offered in your worship though?* *Vedic priests never ate cow meat, neither then nor now,* *isn’t cow meat the manure in which vegetables grow.**?* *மீனிறைச்சி* *தின்றதில்லை* *அன்றுமின்றும்* *வேதியர்* *மீனிருக்கும்* *நீரலோ* *மூழ்வதுங்* *குடிப்பதும்* *மானிறைச்சி* *தின்றதில்லை* *அன்றுமின்றும்* *வேதியர்* *மானுரித்த* *தோலலோ* *மார்புநூல்* *அணிவதும்**. * *ஆட்டிறைச்சி* *தின்றதில்லை* *அன்றுமின்றும்* *வேதியர்* *ஆட்டிறைச்சி* *அல்லவோ* *யாகம்நீங்கள்* *ஆற்றலே* *மாட்டிறைச்சி* *தின்றதில்லை* *அன்றுமின்றும்* *வேதியர்* *மாட்டிறைச்சி* *அல்லவோ* *மரக்கறிக்* *கிடுவது**.* Siddhar Sivavakkiyar, dated to around 10th Century CE was one of the leading rebel poets in Tamil literature. Siddhars were iconoclastic rebels whose thoughts were against the organized Vedic religion. In these two verses he mocks the Vedic priests who abhor meat. He says they abhor meat and flesh, but isn’t it part of their daily lives. Siddhar songs are written in simple words but no commentary is available. So it is up to individuals to interpret it. The words themselves aren’t difficult and are still in use even now. But interpretation might vary. **Krishnajina* – deer skin over which sacred thread is worn. **My interpretation – Dead cows were buried in the farms in which they were raised. Hence they became manure for vegetables that vegetarians eat. *A solid stone you choose and break it into parts two;* *the stone at entrance, you tread on till it’s worn smooth;* *the stone at the sanctum, with flowers and water you shower ;* *Tell me, which one of these is fit for the Supreme power.* *ஓசையுள்ள* *கல்லைநீ* *உடைத்திரண்டாய்* *செய்துமே* *வாசலிற்* *பதித்தகல்லை* *மழுங்கவே* *மிதிக்கின்றீர்* *பூசனைக்கு* *வைத்த* *கல்லில்* *பூவும்* *நீரும்* *சாத்து* *கிறீர்* *ஈசனுக்குகந்த* *கல்லெந்தக்* *கல்லு* *சொல்லுமே*. Sivavakkiyar, one of the prominent Siddhars (iconoclastic rebels), is known for his fiery denunciation of idol worship. He is said to have lived around 10th Century AD. In this poem he asks which of these stones is God? There is no difference between these stones as they are from the same rock.One part of it is laid at the entrance and another worshiped as deity. So God is not in these stones, but in your heart. This iconoclasm is the leitmotif of his poems. K RAJARAM IRS 2324 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/CAL5XZop9-_eh-J1v_J5U3ownSgb%2BMfKonDvB0VeWC36J0GazNA%40mail.gmail.com.
