CULTURAL QA 03202413
Q1 Why was Krishna silent in Karna's humiliation by Draupadi at her
Swayamvara? If that was dharma, then why was Karna's silence in Draupadi
Vastraharan considered adharma by Lord Krishna? How is this justified?
G and Yashasvi Sharma, Asst Manager-Business Excellence Corporate Quality
at Relaxo Footwear Limited (2018–present) Updated 5y
1 Karna was an ambitious person who no doubt was a very good human being
by the virtue of his genes but he had the upbringing from a family which
was different from the upbringing which prevailed in the kshatriya families.
2 Draupadi was a kshatriya born girl who had right to choose her
husband. She had right to accept the one who had fulfilled the condition of
syamvar as well as she had right to reject even if someone had fulfilled
the condition. It was totally her own choice to reject or accept anyone.
3 Karna should have known that according to the rules of society at
that time, his belongingness to a different class of society made it
unacceptable for him to be a groom of a kshatriya born girl but being an
“over ambitious” man, he wanted all the perks which a kshatriya man
enjoyed. It was Karna’s perception that he didn't deserve to be treated as
a chariot driver's son instead he wanted everyone to treat him like a
kshatriya and give him same place in the society as a kshatriya man had as
he was tired of facing the discrimination all his life.
4 This incident only depicts the over ambitiousness of Karna and his
reluctant attitude to accept the truth.
5 G My note- Opinions differ. I have selected this QA from the
viewpoint of Droupathi.
KR: Any question must be answered directly and if in doubt ask the
question and leave at it; if there are opinions then why that Q and A at
all; if it were compiled, so many issues would have run into the learnt
mind; but in one who wants to dry up the tail compile is pick and throw for
today.
First of all, birth and brought up do not vary; system is the
same; but people differ; so, Radhe is less cultured according to Mr G than
Kunti? Karna was called suta putran; a fact till then; Krishna did not
do so many things; he could have sent the kids Duryodhana bros and
Dridharashtrans TO FOREST AND PLANTED Dharma; but did not. He could have
sent the 100 to the forest in the Dyuta game. He did not do it. He could
have ruled the entire Bharatha varsham and asked Pandavas to pay him; did
not do it. Why questions stopped. One has to read what is GODLINESS. In
viswa roopam, he shows Arjuna the future from then; there the arjuna see a
lot of deaths inside, while all of them are alive outside; that meant also
he said, ALL ARE PRE-DETERMINED. Even Krishnan helping Pandavas at some
places are predetermined as a stage drama, where script drawn already;
there Krishna also plays only his role; that means, in the events all have
the rolls, including the Brahmam, which pre-determinations, only YOU
BROUGHT THROUGH YOUR KARMA WHICH WAS PRE-HAPPENED. And In B G HE also says,
“leave all the dharmas; even if you are a core sinner, IF YOU SURRENDER, I
will give you moksha; THAT MEANS IF THE BABY WANTS MILK IT HAS TO CRY; THEN
ONLY MOTHER WILL ATTEND; IF THE BABY WANTS TO SURVIVE, IT HAS TO GRIP THE
MOTHER-MONKEY; AS CAT EACH TIME MAY NOT HAPPEN; SOMETIME OUT OF HUNGER THE
CAT WILL EAT THE KITTENS TOO.
So, unless you lift your hand willing to forego your single vastram
(ready to remove vastram apaharanam) GOD is not in that role, as in the
predetermined version and strength alone shall win. YOUR WIFE CAN NEVER
MARRY ME OR VICE VERSA. I cannot occupy your home and vice versa. SO TOO
LIFE. It is your life and only you have to live and die. The state of
affairs are fixed; we are only acting; that is why I like the words of
Shakespeare and BirthrHari.
KR IRS 13 3 24 So if you compile go for all references and then release
the compilation sir. If you take a script, you shall ask 5 Ws. Get
references; as you don’t know anything as of now (that is not a crime) you
will take a lot of time and cannot write as CP from Quora ; I have read
them all; and by God’s grace has some retention power too as of now; so
immediately I know where it is; and if I write Neti like your friend that
is not content; so I draw the reference thoroughly so long; for those who
read, they understand; for ego only weighed person , never you can.
Q2 Did Karna ever regret the misbehavior of Draupadi?
A2 Shyam Sunder, It gives us a lesson rather than a history.8y
G My note- I have selected this QA for rules and regulations at
Dwaparayuga. My base for selection of this QA is Bhishma’s words- if Karna
was made the commander he would not fight in the war.Regarding draupadi
incident – Lord Krishna was waiting at the door of palace. She remembered
and called Krishna while the disturbing incident started. The entire
incidents would have been different if Droupathi called Krishna while the
sabha began
KR These kinds of Zakir Hussain stuff must be avoided by 80 years
old brahmin and I will excuse the Shyam so young Aviveki.
Had it been that, it would have been that- as I wrote in earlier Q.
It is ITI HASA thus it HAPPENED; not as G and Shyam wanted it. CAN I CREATE
YOUR LIFE? I CAN ONLY NARRATE YOUR LIFE AND ANALYSE YOUR RAISE AND FALL.
And if regulations of yuga show, then are you not trying to justify your
actions on something or someone else? You always transgene thy rights.
What Karna did was the loyalty as a few shows here with bad taste.
The loyalty fad for folded hands existed in bad people in all yugas, was
even in Dvapara yuga and treta yuga. As Subramanya Bharathi interpreted,
Karna ate a lot of salt; and for that Suta putran chanting the name from
Pa….ya to SC , is a great thing;( here a king so Kshatriya he thought; bur
Sudra kings were also there in the history; varna was thus different in
different periods as manipulated by men. In Kali it is changed as caste.
and so as VeMa and so many will produce all kinds of film; and we shall
weigh and write at 80. Even Karna had the inferiority complex as some in
the group have and shout all times; so out of complex he did not even
appear before Drona till he fell down in the war. He never even had the
guts of Ekalaivan; he was posted by Duryodhanas as some are posted here;
the quality of person is revealed by his stature; so the quality of art,
culture and the contents. Having born poor is not a crime; but dying a poor
is. So too, here Duryodhana deputed him, to break the tie against Arjuna by
making Karna King of Anga. But how can aa blind see a Kings’ looks?
Draupadi as you wrote was raised as aged by Durupadan and adopted as a
kshatriya; not having born as you wrote in compiling without verifying.
Draupadi has a right to choose etc is different; but can she speak
excessively calling Karna suta putran? (Thus, Karna calling Draupadi as a
whore gets equated). However, the place of utterances does matter in any
reference to the context. IDAM, PORUL AND EVAL. Some one also wrote in
our columns remember.? It is a Swayam Vara; the participants may object but
cannot pass judgements; Karna did; Karna when Duryodhana was silent (when
the head is there tail shall not wag, if done it will be called SARAMA)
Karna objected how Brahmins who have know qualifications can enter the
forum. As a few neither read nor willing to learn, keep on vying with only
words, so too Karna, having unread the rights of Brahmins in Marriage
uttered those words insulting the brahmins as Stalin does today. When
Drona brahmin is present who is good Vedas as well as in armoury, and
brahmins can marry even a shudra by sastras, which is not known to Karna
(as many unaware writes as crocodiles) jumps sky high; then someone will
punch Karna too; and she did it because she has the cult of Durupadan. (and
legally Karna cannot even enter the durbar)
However, the marriage concept of women was NOT derived only by
Draupadi for the first time. After all, visiting many women is not a
“whoresome” for men including Karnan, but the vice-versa only is a
fittingly a whore, then it is male chauvinism, which did not exist as
prevalent then; so, it is his mind -problem as a few in the society always
exist as perverts. Perverts always need something to charge someone. It is
a psychic problem of Karnan. So, he dared to address thinking all are
backing him. But forgot that Karnan did not possess even that right to
disrobe a whore in public; many a times, people get caught by their mouth,
where bad graha in the second house of Vak staanam. Thus, the act of male
chauvinism is unpardonable. Droupathi spoke her rights; Karna spoke about
his foolishness because of UNWANTED FRIENDSHIP-KOODA NATPU KEDIL MUDIYUM.
So I was killed. People accept him as a charity giver, but even that wealth
belonged to Duryodhanan and not earned by him. Inferiority complex alone
led him to his death.
However in “ Hiltebeitel, Alf (2011). Dharma: Its Early History in
Law, Religion, and Narrative. Oxford University Press. ISBN
978-0-19-987524-5. Book (it is in us library) Hiltebeitel says,” With
Duryodhana, Karna is a key participant in insulting the Pandavas and
Draupadi. He humiliates the Pandavas with his gift of speech and mocks
Draupadi, then calls her a "whore" and asks Dushasana to strip her off her
clothes. It is Karna's language and insults that hurt the Pandavas and
Draupadi the most, a sentiment that is noted in numerous verses of the
Mahabharata such as 3.13.113 and 5.93.11. Yet, states the Mahabharata
scholar Alf Hiltebeitel, *"remarkably, Karna regrets his harsh words to
Draupadi and Pandavas'', in verse 5.139.45*, (Sanskrit verse not English)
where he confesses*, he spoke so to please Duryodhana. And the English
edition takes it to 5. 141 as extracted below: Some one also criticised
that Karna did not regret Draupadi especially only Pandavas; it is narrow
mindedness; when the words of Karna were uttered his encompassing the
Pandavas include every one and includes Draupadi also; and his regrets were
explicit. *
Did Karna was regretting yes as Sanskrit verse may not be read by many, I
give below excerpt extracted from Ganguli:
SECTION 141
"Karna said, 'Without doubt, O Kesava, thou hast said these words from thy
love, affection, and friendship for me, as also in consequence of thy
desire of doing me good, O thou of Vrishni's race. I know all that thou
hast said unto me. Morally, I am the son of Pandu, as also in consequence
of the injunctions of the scriptures, as thou, O Krishna, thinkest. My
mother, while a maiden, bore me in her womb, O Janardana, through her
connection with Surya. And at the command of Surya {KR: Kunti comes only
later but he knew before) himself, she abandoned me as soon as I was born.
Even thus, O Krishna, I came into the world. Morally, therefore, I am the
son of Pandu. Kunti, however, abandoned me without thinking of my welfare.
The Suta, Adhiratha, as soon as he beheld me, took me to his home, and
from her affection for me, Radha's breasts were filled with milk that very
day, and she, O Madhava, cleansed my urine and evacuations. How can one
like us, conversant with duties and ever engaged in listening to scriptures
deprive her of her Pinda? So also Adhiratha of the Suta class regardeth me
as a son, and I too, from affection, always regard him as (my) father. O
Madhava, that Adhiratha, O Janardana, from paternal affection caused all
the rites of infancy to be performed on my person, according to the rules
prescribed in the scriptures. It is Adhiratha, again, who caused the name
Vasusena to be bestowed upon me by the Brahmanas. When I attained youth, *I
married wives* according to his selections. Through them have been born my
sons and grandsons, O Janardana. My heart also, O Krishna, and all the
bonds of affection and love, are fixed on them. From joy or fear. O
Govinda. I cannot venture to destroy those bonds even for the sake of the
whole earth or heaps of gold. In consequence also of my connection with
Duryodhana of Dhritarashtra's race, I have, O Krishna, enjoyed sovereignty
for thirteen years, without a thorn on my side. I have performed many
sacrifices, always however in connection with persons of the Suta tribe. All
my family rites and marriage rites have been performed with the Sutas.
Obtaining me, O Krishna, Duryodhana hath, O thou of Vrishni's race, made
these preparations for an armed encounter and provoked hostilities with the
sons of Pandu. And it is for this, O Achyuta, that in the battle (that will
ensue), I, O Krishna, have been chosen as the great antagonist of Arjuna to
advance against him in a single combat. For the sake of death, or the ties
of blood, or fear, or temptation, I cannot venture, O Janardana, to behave
falsely towards the intelligent son of Dhritarashtra. If I do not now
engage in a single combat with Arjuna, this will, O Hrishikesa, be
inglorious for both myself and Partha. Without doubt, O slayer of Madhu,
thou hast told me all this for doing me good.
This blazing kingdom, celebrated among all the kings of the earth, is
already won (by Yudhishthira). O thou of Vrishni's race, a great sacrifice
of arms is about to be celebrated by Dhritarashtra's son. Thou, O
Janardana, wilt be the Upadrashtri of that sacrifice. The office of
Adhwaryu also, O Krishna, in that sacrifice, will be thine. The
ape-bannered Vibhatsu accoutred in mail will be the Hotri (his bow),
Gandiva will be the sacrificial ladle, and the prowess of the warriors will
be the clarified butter (that is to be consumed). The weapons called
Aindra, Pasupata, Brahma, and Sthunakarna, applied by Arjuna, will, O
Madhava, be the mantras (of that sacrifice). Resembling his father, or
perhaps, excelling him in prowess, Subhadra's son (Abhimanyu) will be the
chief Vedic hymn to be chanted. That destroyer of elephants ranks that
utterer of fierce roars in battle, that tiger among men, the exceedingly
mighty Bhima, will be Udgatri and Prastotri in this sacrifice.
The mighty Dhrishtadyumna, who sprang into life from the sacrificial
fire, having for its mouth the rites celebrated with mantras, will, O
Krishna, be the Dakshina of that sacrifice. *For those harsh words, O
Krishna, that I said before unto the sons of Pandu for the gratification of
Dhritarashtra's son,--for that wicked conduct of mine,--I am consumed with
repentance.* When O Krishna, thou wilt behold me slain by Arjuna, then will
the Punachiti of this sacrifice commence. When the (second) son of Pandu
will drink the blood of the loudly roaring Dussasana, then will the
Soma-drinking of this sacrifice have taken place! When the two princes of
Panchala (Dhrishtadyumna and Sikhandin) will overthrow Drona and Bhishma,
then, O Janardana, will this sacrifice be suspended for an interval. When
mighty Bhimasena will slay Duryodhana, then, O Madhava, will this sacrifice
of Dhritarashtra's son be concluded. When the wives of Dhritarashtra's sons
and grandsons assembled together, deprived, O Kesava, of their husbands and
sons and without protectors, will indulge in lamentations with Gandhari in
their midst, on the field of battle haunted by dogs and vultures and other
carnivorous birds, then, O Janardana, will the final bath of this sacrifice
take place.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
SECTION 142
"Sanjaya said, 'Hearing these words of Karna, Kesava, that slayer of hostile
heroes, spoke unto him these words smilingly, 'Do not the means of winning
an empire recommend themselves to thee. O Karna? Wishest thou not to rule
over the whole earth given by me to thee? The victory of the Pandavas,
therefore, is very certain. There seems to be no doubt in this. The
triumphal banner of Pandu's son, with the fierce ape on it, seems to be
already set up. The divine artificer, Bhaumana, hath applied such celestial
illusion (in its construction) that it standeth high, displayed like
Indra's banner. Various celestial creatures of terrific shape, indicating
victory, are seen on that standard. Extending for a yojana upwards and all
around, that beautiful standard of Arjuna, resembling fire in radiance, is
never, O Karna, when set up, obstructed by hills or trees. When thou wilt
behold in battle Arjuna, on his car drawn by white steeds and driven by
Krishna, applying Aindra, Agneya and Maruta weapons, and when thou wilt
hear the twang of Gandiva piercing the welkin like the very thunder, then
all signs of the Krita, the Treta, and the Dwapara ages will disappear
(but, instead, Kali embodied will be present). When thou wilt behold in
battle Kunti's son, invincible Yudhishthira, devoted to Yapa and Homa and
resembling the very sun in brilliance, protecting his own mighty army and
burning the army of his foes, then all signs of the Krita, the Treta, and
the Dwapara ages will disappear. When thou wilt behold in battle the mighty
Bhimasena dancing, after having quaffed the blood of Dussasana, like a
fierce elephant with rent temples after having killed a mighty antagonist,
then all signs of the Krita, the Treta, and the Dwapara ages will
disappear. When thou wilt behold in battle Arjuna checking Drona and
Santanu's son and Kripa and king Suyodhana, and Jayadratha of Sindhu's
race, all rushing fiercely to the encounter, then all signs of the Krita,
the Treta and the Dwapara ages will disappear. When thou wilt behold in
battle the two mighty sons of Madri,--those heroic car-warriors, capable of
breaking into pieces all hostile cars,--agitating, from the very moment
when weapons will begin to clash, the army of Dhritarashtra's sons like a
couple of infuriated elephants, then all signs of the Krita, the Treta and
the Dwapara ages will disappear.
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
SECTION 143
"Sanjaya said, 'Hearing these beneficial and auspicious words of Kesava, Karna
worshipped Krishna, the slayer of Madhu, and said these words, 'Knowing
(everything), why dost thou yet, O thou of mighty arms, seek to beguile me?
The destruction of the whole earth that is at hand for its cause, Sakuni,
and myself, and Dussasana, and king Duryodhana, the son of Dhritarashtra.
Without doubt, O Krishna, a great and fierce battle is at hand between the
Pandavas and the Kurus which will cover the earth with bloody mire. *All
the kings and princes following the lead of Duryodhana, consumed by the
fire of weapons will proceed to the abode of Yama*. Diverse frightful
visions are seen, O slayer of Madhu, and many terrible portents, and fierce
disturbances also. All these omens, making the hairs (of the spectators)
stand on their ends, indicate, *O thou of Vrishni's race, the defeat of
Dhritarashtra's son and the victory of Yudhishthira. *
That fierce planet of great effulgence, Sanaischara (Saturn), is
afflicting the constellation called Rohini, in order to afflict greatly the
creatures of the earth. The planet Angaraka (Mars), wheeling, O slayer of
Madhu, towards the constellation Jeshthya, approacheth towards Anuradhas,
indicating a great slaughter of friends. Without doubt, O Krishna, a
terrible calamity approacheth the Kurus when specially, O thou of Vrishni's
race, the planet Mahapat afflicteth the constellation Chitra. The spot on
the lunar disc hath changed its position; and Rahu also approacheth towards
the sun. Meteors are falling from the sky with loud noise and trembling
motion. The elephants are sending forth frightful cries, while the steeds,
O Madhava, are shedding tears, without taking any delight in food and
drink. They say, O thou of mighty arms, that on the appearance of these
portents, a terrible calamity approacheth, productive of a great slaughter.
O Kesava, amongst the steeds, elephants and soldiers, in all the
divisions of Duryodhana's army, it is seen, O slayer of Madhu, that while
small is the food these take, ample is the excreta they evacuate. The wise
have said that this is an indication of defect. The elephants and steeds of
the Pandavas, O Krishna, all seem to be cheerful, while all the animals
wheel along their right. This also is an indication of their success.
The same animal, O Kesava, pass by the left side of Duryodhana's army,
while incorporeal voices are constantly heard (over their heads). All this
is an indication of defeat. All auspicious birds, such as peacocks, swans,
cranes, Chatakas, Jivajivas, and large flights of Vakas, follow the
Pandavas, while vultures, Kankas, hawks, Rakshasas, wolves and bees, in
flights and herds, follow the Kauravas.
The drums in the army of Dhritarashtra's son yield no sounds, while
those of the Pandavas yield sounds without being struck. The wells in the
midst of Duryodhana's encampment send forth loud roars like those of huge
bulls. All this is an indication of defeat.
The gods are showering flesh and blood, O Madhava, on Duryodhana's
soldiers. Vapoury edifices of great effulgence with high walls, deep
trenches, and handsome porches, are suddenly appearing in the skies (over
the Kuru encampment). A black circle surrounding the solar disc appears to
the view. Both twilights at sunrise and sunset indicate great terrors. The
jackals yell hideously. All this is an indication of defeat. Diverse birds,
each having but one wing, one eye, and one leg, utter terrible cries. All
this, O slayer of Madhu, indicates defeat. Fierce birds with black wings
and red legs hover over the Kuru encampment at nightfall. All this is an
indication of defeat. The soldiers of Duryodhana betray hatred for
Brahmanas first, and then for their preceptors, and then for all their
affectionate servants. The, eastern horizon of (Duryodhana's encampment)
appeareth red; the southern of the hue of weapons; and western, O slayer of
Madhu, of an earthy hue. All the quarters around Duryodhana's encampment
seem, O Madhava, to be ablaze. In the appearance of all these portents,
great is the danger that is indicated.
'I have in a vision, O Achyuta, beheld Yudhishthira ascending with his
brothers a palace supported by a thousand columns. All of them appeared
with white head-gears and in white robes. And all of them appeared to me to
be seated on white seats. In the midst of the same vision, thou, O
Janardana, was beheld by me to be employed in enveloping the blood-dyed
earth with weapons. Yudhishthira at the same time, of immeasurable energy,
ascending upon a heap of bones, was gladly eating buttered payasa of a
golden cup. I further beheld Yudhishthira to be employed in swallowing the
earth handed over to him by thee. This indicates that he will verily rule
the earth. I beheld that tiger among men, Vrikodara, of fierce deeds,
standing on the summit, mace in hand, and as if devouring this earth. This
plainly indicates that he will slay all of us in a fierce battle. It is
known to me, O lord of the senses, that victory is there where
righteousness is. I also saw Dhananjaya, the wielder of Gandiva, seated on
the back of a white elephant, with thee, O lord of the senses, and blazing
forth with great beauty. I have no doubt, O Krishna, that ye will slay in
battle all the kings headed by Duryodhana. I saw Nakula and Sahadeva and
that mighty car-warrior Satyaki, adorned with white bracelets, white
cuirasses, white garlands, and white robes. This tiger among men were
seated upon excellent vehicles borne on the shoulders of men. And I saw
that umbrellas were held over the heads of all the three. Amongst the
soldiers of Dhritarashtra's son, these three, O Janardana, were beheld by
me decked with white head-gears. Know, O Kesava, that those three were
Aswatthaman, Kripa, and Kritavarman of Satwata's race. All other kings, O
Madhava, were seen by me to have blood-red head-ears. I saw also, O thou of
mighty arms, that those mighty car-warriors Bhishma and Drona, ascending on
a vehicle drawn by camels, and by myself, and Dhritarashtra's son,
proceeded, O lord, to the quarter, O Janardana, ruled by *Agastya.* This
indicates that we shall soon have to proceed to Yama's abode. I have no
doubt that myself and the other kings, indeed, the entire assemblage of
Kshatriyas shall have to enter into the Gandiva fire.'
"Karna said, 'If, O Krishna, we come out of this great battle that will be
so destructive of heroic Kshatriyas, with life, then, O thou of mighty arms
may we meet here again. Otherwise, O Krishna, we shall certainly meet in
heaven. O sinless one, it seemeth to me now that there only it is possible
for us to meet.'
xxxxx
SECTION 146
"Vaisampayana continued, 'Though, thus addressed by his mother, and by also
his father Surya himself, Karna's heart did not yet waver, for he was
firmly devoted to truth. And he said, 'O Kshatriya lady, I cannot admit
what thou hast said, viz., that obedience to thy commands constituted (in
my case) the highest of my duties. O mother, I was abandoned by thee as
soon as I was born. This great injury, involving risk to life itself, that
thou didst me, hath been destructive of my achievements and fame. If,
indeed, I am a Kshatriya, I have, for thee, been deprived of all the rites
of a Kshatriya. What enemy would have done me a greater injury? Without
showing me mercy, when thou shouldst have shown it, and having kept me
divested of all the rites (that are obligatory in consequence of the order
of my birth), thou wouldst however, lay thy command on me today! Thou hadst
never before sought my good as a mother should. Thou addressest me today,
however, desiring to do good to thyself. Who is there that would not be
afraid of Dhananjaya having Krishna with him (for the driver of his car)?
If, therefore, I go today unto the Parthas, who is there that would not
regard me as doing so from fright? Hitherto, nobody knew me to be their
brother. If, giving out on the eve of battle that I am their brother, I go
to the Pandavas, what would all the Kshatriyas say? Furnished with every
object of desire, and worshipped by them with a view to make me happy, how
can I render that friendship of Dhritarashtra's sons utterly futile? Having
provoked hostilities with others, they always wait on me respectfully, and
always bow down to me, as the Vasus bow down to Vasava. They think that
aided by my might, they are capable of encountering the foe. How can I then
frustrate that cherished hope of theirs? With me as their boat, they desire
to cross the impassable ocean of battle. How can I then abandon them that
are desirous of crossing that ocean which hath no other ferry? This is the
time when all those have been supported by Dhritarashtra's sons should
exert themselves for their masters. I shall certainly act for them, *reckless
of even my life.* Those sinful men of unsteady heart, who, well-fed and
well-furnished (with every necessary) by their masters, undo the benefit
received by them when the time cometh for paying back, are thieves of their
master's cakes, have neither this nor the other world for them. I will not
speak deceitfully unto thee. For the sake of Dhritarashtra's son, I shall
fight against thy sons to the best of my strength and might. I must
not, however,
abandon kindness and the conduct that becometh the good. Thy words,
therefore, however beneficial cannot be obeyed by me now. This thy
solicitation to me will not yet be fruitless. Except Arjuna, thy other
sons, Yudhishthira, Bhima, and the twins, though capable of being withstood
by me in tight and capable also of being slain, shall not yet be slain by me
THIS IS COMPILING SIR KR IRS 14 3 24
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Q3 a repeat again
Q5 Who is Mythili brahmins was trashed out by me in a long article
which people like G do not like and do not also read; but they wish we read
them even if CP wrongly K Rajaram IRS 14 3 24
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: 'gopala krishnan' via Thatha_Patty <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 at 09:23
Subject: CULTURAL QA 03-2024-13
To: Patty Thatha <[email protected]>, Kerala Iyer <
[email protected]>, Iyer <[email protected]>
CULTURAL QA 03-2024-13
All the below QA are from Quora DIGEST to me on 13-03-2024.
Selected quora answers generally interesting including jokes are included Still
they need not be 100% correct answers.
I am only a compiler.
Compiled and posted by R. Gopala Krishnan, 80, on 13-03-2024.
Q1 Why was Krishna silent in Karna's humiliation by Draupadi at her
Swayamvara? If that was dharma, then why was Karna's silence in Draupadi
Vastraharan considered adharma by Lord Krishna? How is this justified?
A1 Yashasvi Sharma, Asst Manager-Business Excellence Corporate Quality
at Relaxo Footwear Limited (2018–present) Updated 5y
Karna was an ambitious person who no doubt was a very good human being by
the virtue of his genes but he had the upbringing from a family which was
different from the upbringing which prevailed in the kshatriya families.
Draupadi was a kshatriya born girl who had right to choose her husband. She
had right to accept the one who had fulfilled the condition of syamvar as
well as she had right to reject even if someone had fulfilled the condition.
It was totally her own choice to reject or accept anyone.
Karna should have known that according to the rules of society at that
time, his belongingness to a different class of society made it
unacceptable for him to be a groom of a kshatriya born girl but being an
“over ambitious” man, he wanted all the perks which a kshatriya man
enjoyed. It was Karna’s perception that he didn't deserve to be treated as
a chariot driver's son instead he wanted everyone to treat him like a
kshatriya and give him same place in the society as a kshatriya man had as
he was tired of facing the discrimination all his life.
But the fact is that he was brought up as a chariot driver's son and being
called as a chariot driver's son was no insult. Being rejected for being at
a wrong place or I should say being stopped to participate in an irrelevant
competition was no insult. It was Draupadi’s choice that she wanted to
marry a kshatriya or brahmin not the chariot driver's son, and she had full
authority to reject anybody. It was only Karna who perceived it as an
insult but it was no insult at all. This incident only depicts the over
ambitiousness of Karna and his reluctant attitude to accept the truth.
At last Draupadi made no mistake in choosing her soul mate as later on
Karna turned out to be a man who didn't know the definition of dharma. Karna
was a great human being & warrior but his upbringing was not up to the mark
to teach him the true meaning of Dharma.
My note- Opinions differ. I have selected this QA from the viewpoint of
Droupathi.
Profile photo for Shyam Sunder
Q2 Did Karna ever regret the misbehavior to Draupadi?
A2 Shyam Sunder, It gives us a lesson rather than a history.8y
There was no need for Karna or Draupadi to regret their behavior of what
they had done to each other.
Did Draupadi regretted her action for what she did to Karna? Because it was
an usual thing they used to follow in ancient times. Karna was adopted and
brought by people who were married in caste difference. They were called a
Suta. So he is Suta Putra. People will never respect those kind of people
who didn't respect their caste. If Draupadi had married Karna, then they
would also called a Suta, their child will be Suta Putra. Higher caste
people will never allow lower caste people to follow their way. So she
called Karna a Suta Putra and didn't allow him to contest.
Remember what happened to Sita in Ramayana and why was she asked to leave
the Ayodhya kingdom despite being a Queen? If a Kshatriya caste woman had
more than three husbands, she will be called a Whore. These kinds of rules,
traditional norms were followed by people in ancient times.
When Yudhisthira lost all his kingdom and everything including his
brothers, Draupadi and himself, he was asked to be a slave to Duryodhana
and Hastinapur. A Slave cannot wear clothes like how kings and prince used
to wear. Even though they wear clothes but they cannot in front of
Kings. Remember
Sathyavati, who was fisherman's daughter was from low caste. As per
paintings from Raja Ravi varma, we can see that those low caste people
won’t wear clothes in front of Kings. This was just to show their respects
to them. Duryodhan ordered Dushashan to bring Draupadi into sabha and let
her know that she would be slave and will join other people who are working
as maid. But some serials, novels had shown like Duryodhan asked Draupadi
to sit on his lap and everything.
Draupadi protested that how Yudhistira could gamble her when he lost
himself first?. If Draupadi was right in her opinion, everyone would have
supported her and even Pandavas would not allow Draupadi to face such
situation. But the truth is Yudhistira also lost Draupadi. Pandavas never
came to support Draupadi. People like Vidhura, Bhishma asked Duryodhana on
why he is doing such to draupadi as she is common wife of all pandavas and she
was also a queen in Panchala as well as Indraprastha. However, they didn't
argue or support Draupadi's concern. Because, In ancient times none would
hear woman's words.
There was more of a male chauvinism. They knew that Draupadi was also
lost. Only Vikarna supported her. When Karna was already in anger with
Draupadi, he stood against Vikarna, said that when every elders were
supporting Duryodhan, how can you raise against them.
He asked Pandavas and Draupadi to remove their clothes by themselves in
front of the King. Karna also said to Draupadi, that her husbands are not
worth to save her from critical situation and better to search for someone
else. Karna told this words so that the Pandavas who were doing nothing,
can do something to save themselves or Draupadi, because they will never
follow orders from a Suta Putra.
But Pandavas followed Karna's orders. Draupadi didn't follow as she was
still questioning elders that whether she was won righteously. Here, Draupadi's
concern was not for removing her clothes, but to claim her authenticity. If
she was righteously won according to herself, then she would have did it by
herself. On this situation, Dushasan went to disrobe Draupadi and so and so
happened.
In the final phase of Kurukshetra war during Karna's moment of death,
Krishna reminded Karna of his actions on what he did to Pandavas in front
of Arjuna, just to provoke Arjuna who was reluctant to shoot an unarmed
warrior. But some serials showed like, Krishna paused the world activities
and spoke to karna about his acts that he followed from Duryodhana. Even
after Karna's chariot was down to ground, Still Karna fought from the
ground. He attacked Arjuna fiercely and Arjuna was down. At this time Karna
kept his bow in chariot and went to lift his chariot up. However Arjuna
gained conscious and killed Karna when Karna was arm less. There is nothing
happened like Karna regretting how it was portrayed in movies, serials and
novels. Those were some regulations that people used to follow in ancient
times. Even it was followed till 19th century, but only later it was
changed.
My note- I have selected this QA for rules and regulations at Dwaparayuga. My
base for selection of this QA is Bhishma’s words- if Karna was made the
commander he will not fight in the war.
Regarding droupathi incident – Lord Krishna was waiting at the door of
palace. She remembered and called Krishna while disrobing incident started.
The entire incidents would have been different if Droupathi called Krishna
while the sabha began
Q3 What is the history behind Nair surnames like Menon, Pillai,
Kaimal, Kartha, Unnithan, and Nambiar? Are they regional or do they
indicate rank within the Nair caste?
A3 Joseph Taylor, Studied at Sunshine Worldwide School Mar 4
The Nair community is a prominent Hindu caste in the southern Indian state
of Kerala. Nair surnames like Menon, Pillai, Kaimal, Kartha, Unnithan, and
Nambiar have historical significance and often indicate various factors
such as regional origin, ancestral occupation, or family lineage rather
than rank within the Nair caste itself.
1. Menon: Menon is a common Nair surname, and historically, Menons were
associated with administrative roles in the traditional feudal setup of
Kerala. They were often landowners, revenue collectors, and administrators
in the royal courts.
2. Pillai: Pillai is another prevalent Nair surname. Originally, Pillais
were associated with the warrior class and were involved in military and
administrative roles under the local rulers of Kerala. Over time, the term
Pillai became a title of respect and was adopted by various communities in
the region.
My note- Now also one can see during marriage betrothel, they wear turbans
, perhaps of old military heritage.
3. Kaimal: Kaimal is a surname commonly associated with certain lineages or
families that held positions of authority, especially in the erstwhile
princely state of Travancore. Kaimals were often involved in temple
administration and were considered as intermediaries between the people and
the ruling authorities.
4. Kartha: Kartha is a surname that signifies a person's role as the head
or manager of a particular family or property. It is not specific to the
Nair community alone but is prevalent among various Hindu communities in
Kerala.
5. Unnithan: Unnithan is a Nair surname that suggests a family's connection
to a particular village or region. It may also indicate the ancestral
profession or occupation of the family.
My note- In central Kerala they had the parentage of royal family male and
Nair lady.
6. Nambiar: Nambiar is a Nair subcaste and surname that is associated with
specific regions of Kerala, particularly in the northern parts of the
state. Nambiar families traditionally held positions in the feudal setup,
including administrative and military roles.
My note- They were/ are mostly associated with temple functions.
These surnames may reflect the historical roles and occupations of Nair
families within the social and administrative structure of Kerala. However,
it is important to note that the significance of these surnames has evolved
over time, and in contemporary society, individuals may identify with these
surnames for reasons beyond their historical origins, such as family
tradition or cultural affiliation.
My note- Kurup, Pisharadi, Pothuval, Marar etc sub communites of Nair are
not included in this answer.
Q4 What are some amazing facts about snakes?
A4 Kevin Mitnick, MSc in Computer Science & Information Technology,
University of California, Berkeley (Graduated 2003)Feb 11
Snakes never stop growing.
Snakes Smell With Their Tongues, Snakes use their tongues to sense
chemicals in the air, and then transport them to the organ to smell them.
Snakes do not have external ears but they still have internal ear bones.
A snake skeleton has 600-1800 bones, depending on the species.
Snakes have smooth dry skin that is covered in scales. These scales are
made of Keratin. That’s the same substance that is in human hair and nails.
They do not blink and they sleep with eyes open.
Snakes can eat things 75-100% bigger than their own size.
There are 3,789 snake species, making them the second largest group of
reptiles after lizards.
Only around 600 snakes species are venomous and, far fewer can hurt humans.
Australia is home to 20 of the 25 most venomous snakes in the world.
A few rare snakes are born with two heads.
King cobras are considered the smartest snake in the world.
Brazil is the country with the largest number of species of snakes in the
world.
Q5 Are Thakurs Mythili Brahmins?
A5 The term "Thakur" historically referred to a feudal or landowning
class in certain parts of India, including the Mithila region. Over time,
as society evolved, various communities adopted surnames for identification
and social classification.
Among Maithil Brahmins, the usage of "Thakur" as a surname might have
evolved from several possible scenarios:
1. Landownership and feudal associations: In the past, some Brahmin
families in the Mithila region might have held significant land or
positions of authority, leading them to adopt "Thakur" as a surname to
signify their status or association with landowning classes.
2. Honorific usage: "Thakur" is also an honorific title used to address
individuals with respect in many parts of India. Brahmin families might
have adopted it as a surname to denote reverence or high social standing
within their community.
3. Cultural assimilation: Over time, as communities interacted and
intermarried, there could have been cultural assimilation and adoption of
surnames from other social groups. Brahmin families might have incorporated
"Thakur" into their surnames through such interactions.
4. Regional influences: The Mithila region has a diverse cultural and
historical background, with influences from various ruling dynasties and
social structures. It's possible that the usage of "Thakur" as a surname
among Maithil Brahmins has roots in these regional influences.
Overall, the usage of "Thakur" as a surname among Maithil Brahmins likely
has complex historical, social, and cultural reasons, reflecting the
intricate dynamics of caste, identity, and regional heritage in the Mithila
region of Bihar, India.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Thatha_Patty" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/1658357214.2449623.1710339773150%40mail.yahoo.com
<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/1658357214.2449623.1710339773150%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Thatha_Patty" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/CAL5XZorQLZAvq%3DCBToDyXKrtZWUu6CE4-A%2B1q6%2B-YB4fm57mJA%40mail.gmail.com.
