Perfectly said or observed K Rajaram On Sat, 22 Feb 2025, 09:38 Markendeya Yeddanapudi, < [email protected]> wrote:
> The extremely low self esteem among us,has developed indifference towards > our own brilliant people.We have no self confidence to certify brilliance > as brilliance.We need the certificate of some foreigner.You write the most > original ideas,your own Indian friends do not even talk about it.And you > have to contend with persons who can only deride and insult you and > congratulate themselves when they post filth against you.But they simply > refuse to recognize your merit as they have no self confidence and self > esteem. > Ramanujam got recognition from Prof Hardy of I think Oxford University,but > in India he was just an unnoticed Railway clerk,a mere matriculate. > YM > > On Sat, Feb 22, 2025 at 8:47 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> SELF ESTEEM >> >> >> >> Indians have a veru slow self-esteem as evident from our groups >> aand the nations far and wide; Mr Sekar often quotes to make us rise and >> awakened. But what aare the four perceptions of the self esteem ? >> >> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> I Do you agree with the fact that Indians have relatively low >> self-esteem? >> >> I completely agree. I am an Indian who has lived in US for 15 years but >> have come back to India. I studied and worked in Engineering there. >> >> I see that Indians are all about pleasing, fitting in, hero worshipping, >> aping the west. The simplest example is the obsession with American accent >> in English while not caring about speaking Hindi fluently. In fact many are >> ashamed of speaking in Hindi. Yes English is a stylish, attractive sounding >> language but that is it. That way if you see, Hindi is a very scientific >> language. They are just languages. >> >> Now when I came back to India and started working somewhere (an Indian >> company but MNC) I was asked by Indian colleagues -Why aren’t you using >> American accent? They also associated it with my capability to do my job >> right- as if speaking in American accent meant being able to do my job. I >> was in a senior management position. But still I am in India! My job had >> nothing to do with selling or interacting with foreign clients. So why will >> I use an American accent? Also Americans dont care about your accent as far >> as you speak clearly. I never had any issue with my accent in US. People >> mostly said, I speak very well. And in engineerimg your job is quite >> technical. Why is this a matter of shame and pride in India? Where is our >> self esteem? We should be proud to speak in Hindi or have our own English >> accent. Yes, clarity is important. But otherwise, China is doing it. France >> is doing it. Germany is doing it. Korea is doing it. They all speak English >> with their accents. And there is American English and British English. >> >> More on this- my friends in US who have settled there have American >> accents - they are extremely well educated people doing great in their >> lives and careers. Now American accent for English in America makes sense >> since you need good communication skills and you are living in a foreign >> country. But over time their Hindi accents have changed to American accent >> as well. Hindi is a separate language spoken differently. I understand this >> can happen naturally if you are not paying attention to your speech. But >> when it is important to speak English in American accent because that is a >> “truer version” of English, why is it not important to speak Hindi in its >> “true” accent? Especially because it's your native language that you spoke >> in all your life! >> >> >> >> It's simple. No self esteem. They think English is superior. I think >> this is the exact reason why Britishers could rule in India. Indians simply >> bowed to them and thought they were better. Why? Because they don't care to >> know about their country and it's greatness. Just blind followers. >> >> (ps: Another small example and observation. Buddha taught mindfulness to >> the world in the form of Vipassana meditation. I have sat and served >> Vipassana courses for more than two decades. The west, especially US, >> noticed this and started selling it (like they always do, US is great at >> selling anything). Now they have courses in mindfulness in their >> universities especially Stanford etc, incorporated mindfulness in cognitive >> therapy etc and have started re-teaching it to the world. Even UK top >> universities have seen the value of it and are teaching it in universities. >> Many world renowned names like Ekhart Tolle, Jon Kabat Jinn etc are >> teaching mindfulness as if they have discovered it themselves , they never >> give any credit to the Vipassana courses they have done and the teachers >> from whom they have learnt, especially the Buddha. However now Indian >> psychologists go and learn these new psychology courses from the west and >> are in awe of it. In a few years, people in India will think mindfulness >> came from the west. Same story for Ayurveda or Yoga. Why? Because >> Indians have no self-esteem. They just want to praise and hero-worship >> “others”. No self-knowledge or pride about their own nation.) {QUORA} >> >> >> >> II Whenever someone is pulled up for jumping the queue at, say, >> passport counters in international airports, we are embarrassed—as it is >> almost always an Indian or an equally insensitive person from our immediate >> neighbours. As soon as a plane lands or a train stops, everyone jumps up >> and seems to be in a tearing hurry, jostling with co-passengers, to get >> out. It may sound too sweeping to brand an entire people as too restlessly >> self-centred, but we all know that it is quite true. We are not arguing >> that others may not be self-obsessed; we are only trying to understand why >> most of us appear to be so inconsiderately pushy. >> >> In 1976, Richard Dawkins created quite a stir with his The Selfish Gene, >> where >> he declared that winning genes are self-reinforcing and spread faster and >> greater because they succeed in achieving their tasks. He also introduced >> the theory of ‘memes’ describing them as elements of a culture or systems >> of behaviour that are passed from one individual to another—by imitation. >> As in the physical world, in society too ‘memes’ or imitational behaviour >> spread more voluminously if they achieve their targeted gains. Applying >> this trait to our society, we may put it rather simply and surmise that >> everyone pushes around as those who pushed first profited in their >> objective. They were not reprimanded despite violating normal decency and >> patience, and they succeeded in moving forward, even at the cost of causing >> discomfort to others. On the other hand, Dutch historian Rutger Bergman >> argues in his recent book, Humankind, that humans are not as intrinsically >> selfish as believed. He insists, after considerable mapping of humans and >> their actions, that acts of kindness are also powerfully contagious. >> >> What then triggers the ‘me-first’ attitude among Indians that really >> stands out more in international comparisons? Honking cars unnecessarily is >> just another aspect of this same inconsiderate social behaviour. The same >> person would be driving perfectly quietly, without blowing his horn, if he >> were abroad and there he would abide by the consensus or face heavy fines >> and public scorn. The same unconcerned disposition is quite visible in the >> practice of keeping our homes as clean as possible but bothering little >> about littering public places and thoroughfares. Before we go deeper in >> examining why our inclinations differ so sharply when it comes to ‘common >> concerns’, let us also analyse the notable international sporting events >> where Indians have won medals. We are talking of the Olympics (woefully few >> medals), Commonwealth Games, Asian Games and such other prestigious >> championships. >> >> We discover that almost all of these medals were for individual >> excellence—shooting, wrestling, boxing, athletics, badminton, tennis, >> weightlifting, chess, swimming and so on. Yes, we have won medals in team >> games like hockey, which is really an exception to this ‘rule’. Our >> post-colonial obsession with cricket is thanks to the incredible amount of >> investment made in the game and in its seductive and addictive televising. >> The point is that we seem to excel where we have to fight it alone, whereas >> where we need to work as a team, say, in football, a nation of 1.3 billion >> has not yet produced its ‘eleven’ for top class international football. >> >> >> >> The whole idea of this little exercise is not to denigrate but to try to >> understand the phenomenon. One possible reason is evident in the most >> populous religion on this subcontinent, on which base ‘grew’ other later >> religions. The mad rush at many temples and other sacred sites during >> festivals and pilgrimages is certainly not for the faint-hearted. And >> frankly, while everyone jostles, elbows and tramples over everyone else, we >> pray only for our welfare and prosperity and, of course, for our family. >> This, again, needs to be appreciated as an act of seeking ‘individual >> salvation’ ,not necessarily (or rarely) for the community. Abrahamic >> religions, on the other hand, emphasise communitarian brotherhood, while we >> are genetically programmed to obtain our own good, come what may. The >> lavish gifts or daana at the temples are often quite transactional in >> nature, and piety is quite purchasable—as in some churches. >> >> How else would a completely unorganised religion that has no Vatican, no >> one Bible, no agreed cadre of preachers survive through so many >> millennia—had it not been for the mandate to pay for the services of the >> priest and the ritual practitioner? The latter belonged to one varna or >> caste group and were often quite captive within a society that demanded >> that they do not seek better vocations. We are, of course, referring to the >> prescribed norm. The short point is that this priesthood needed its clients >> and benefactors. They served them by connecting them directly to the >> Almighty, even if it warranted shoving others out of the way. What we need >> to note is that this class succeeded in uniting an incredibly diverse >> country by injecting common beliefs and rituals. >> >> It is quite possible that we inherited this socially accepted behaviour >> that shaped our cultural genes and stamped our ‘memes’, which, in turn, >> left its indelible mark on our general attitude to life. The ‘community’ >> emerged much later—during the Bhakti movement, with bhajans and other >> institutions. But the core attitude continued to be self-oriented even when >> we became more inclusive and egalitarian. >> >> Jawhar Sircar >> >> Retired civil servant. >> >> >> >> III The assertion that the majority of the population in India is >> "self-centred" is a generalization that needs careful examination. While >> it is true that many individuals across the world exhibit self-interest in >> various degrees, this statement about India specifically requires a deeper, >> more nuanced analysis of socio-cultural, economic, and psychological >> factors. In this essay, we will explore the concept of self-centeredness, >> analyse its roots in Indian society, and consider whether this trait is >> widespread or whether it is merely a perception. The analytical focus will >> examine the role of truth, societal expectations, and the influence of the >> environment in shaping individual behaviour. >> >> 2 Understanding Self-Centeredness and Truth: Self-centeredness is >> often described as excessive preoccupation with oneself, disregarding the >> needs, feelings, or rights of others. This trait can manifest as egoism, >> narcissism, or individualism. It can also be seen as a natural survival >> instinct, where one focuses primarily on personal gains, well-being, and >> success, sometimes at the expense of others. Truth, in this context, can >> be seen as the objective reality about human nature and societal behaviour. >> However, the interpretation of truth is subjective and can differ based on >> culture, history, and personal experiences. In Indian society, like in any >> other, the concept of self-interest exists but is intricately intertwined >> with collective values and a complex social fabric. To understand the claim >> of widespread self-centeredness in India, we must explore factors such as >> family structures, cultural norms, religious teachings, and socio-economic >> conditions. >> >> 3 Cultural and Religious Influence on Self-Interest: >> India’s social structure has historically been defined by *strong >> communal ties.* In traditional Indian society, the family unit has been >> a cornerstone of life. In many parts of India, extended families live >> together, where individuals are taught to prioritize family honour over >> personal desires. However, in the past few decades, societal changes, >> particularly the shift towards urbanization and globalization, have >> introduced a more individualistic culture. This shift, often associated >> with Western influence, has led to a growing sense of personal >> autonomy. Religious teachings also play a significant role in shaping >> attitudes toward self-interest. Hinduism, India’s predominant religion, >> often advocates for a balance between self-care and altruism. The idea >> of dharma (duty) suggests that individuals should act selflessly for the >> greater good. Similarly, Buddhism and Jainism, which have roots in >> India, emphasize compassion and non-violence, promoting selflessness and >> consideration for others. However, in practice, the pressures of modern >> life, including competition, economic disparity, and societal expectations, >> can lead individuals to focus more on personal gain rather than communal or >> familial well-being. The pursuit of material success often overshadows >> these spiritual teachings, creating a tension between self-centred >> behaviour and traditional values of interconnectedness. >> >> 4 Economic Factors and Individualism: India’s rapid >> economic growth over the past few decades has transformed the country in >> numerous ways. The liberalization of the economy, an increase in >> entrepreneurial opportunities, and a growing consumer market have >> encouraged people to pursue personal success. In cities, this has led to >> the rise of individualistic values, with a stronger emphasis on >> self-reliance and personal achievement. The competitive nature of the job >> market also fosters an environment where individuals may adopt a >> self-centred mindset to survive or thrive. On the other hand, India is >> still a country with extreme economic disparities. In rural areas and among >> lower-income populations, survival often becomes the primary concern, >> leading people to focus more on their own immediate needs rather than the >> larger social or collective good. *Here, self-centeredness could be >> understood not as a moral flaw, but as a survival mechanism. *In such >> circumstances, truth about human nature and self-interest could be seen >> through the lens of economic necessity, where personal well-being takes >> precedence. >> >> 5 The Role of social media and Modern Influence: The rise of digital >> media and the proliferation of social media platforms has drastically >> changed the way people interact, especially in urban India. Social media >> often promotes a culture of self-presentation, where individuals are >> encouraged to focus on their image, personal achievements, and lifestyle. >> In this environment, it is easy to see how individuals might become more >> self-centred, as they compete for attention, validation, and approval from >> their peers. Moreover, the curated reality presented on platforms like >> Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter may lead to unrealistic expectations and a >> heightened focus on personal success. People may be driven by the need for >> external validation, often at the expense of authentic connection with >> others. In this context, self-centeredness is not only a product of >> personal desire but is also a consequence of a media-driven culture that >> prizes individual achievements over collective progress. >> >> 6 Social Expectations and the Pressure to Conform: Despite these >> individualistic influences, Indian society also places a strong emphasis on >> social obligations, duty, and respect for elders. However, the pressure >> to conform to societal norms can create a paradox where individuals must >> balance personal desires with collective expectations. For instance, >> many Indians experience intense pressure to succeed academically, >> professionally, and financially, often for the benefit of the family or >> community. This can lead to self-centred behaviour in the pursuit of >> these external goals. On the flip side, the desire to maintain social >> status can foster selflessness when it comes to certain communal or >> familial responsibilities. In many Indian communities, contributing to the >> welfare of the family and larger society is seen as a source of pride. >> Nevertheless, the balance between fulfilling personal ambitions and social >> responsibilities can be difficult, especially when personal success becomes >> equated with self-worth. >> >> 7 The Truth About Self-Centeredness in India: The question of >> whether the majority of the population in India is self-centred is complex. >> It is essential to recognize that self-centeredness, as a trait, is not >> inherently good or bad; it is shaped by societal norms, economic >> conditions, and cultural influences. The truth about self-centeredness in >> India lies in the nuanced interplay of traditional values and modern >> pressures. In some contexts, self-interest may be a reflection of survival >> instincts or the pursuit of individual achievement in a rapidly changing >> world. In other cases, it may be a manifestation of the struggle to meet >> societal expectations or compete in an increasingly globalized economy. >> Ultimately, the extent to which self-centeredness dominates the behaviour >> of individuals in India depends on their socio-economic background, >> exposure to external influences, and the evolving cultural landscape. The >> path to understanding this issue requires acknowledging the complexity of >> human nature and recognizing that self-interest is often balanced with the >> drive to contribute to the larger community. >> >> >> >> In the broader sense, the truth about self-centeredness is not absolute, >> but rather subjective, shaped by the ever-changing realities of Indian >> society. >> >> >> >> IV 'I think Indian men are terribly selfish and egoistic about >> childbearing' >> >> Talking of compulsory sterilization, Bulbul said, "It should have >> happened ten years ago. I am all for it even now. After all, the population >> explosion is the most basic of all our problems." She thinks that a small >> family calls for a much healthier atmosphere. "I think children need more >> attention than affection, and the only way a mother can give them enough >> attention is to have fewer children. I personally wanted to have only one >> child but some of my friends who are only children themselves convinced me >> that that was hard on the child." >> >> Bulbul Sharma, a young mother with a two-year old daughter is expecting >> her second child. Her husband and she have decided that she undergo >> sterilization after the baby is born this September "It's easiest for a >> woman to have herself sterilized at the time of childbirth, and since that >> is the case, I don't see why my husband should go through it unnecessarily " >> >> Talking of compulsory sterilization, Bulbul said, "It should have >> happened ten years ago. I am all for it even now. After all, the population >> explosion is the most basic of all our problems." She thinks that a small >> family calls for a much healthier atmosphere. "I think children need more >> attention than affection, and the only way a mother can give them enough >> attention is to have fewer children. I personally wanted to have only one >> child but some of my friends who are only children themselves convinced me >> that that was hard on the child." >> >> In the case of the economically deprived classes, she feels that >> inhibitions in facing the facts of life are gradually dying. "The younger >> generation is becoming quite aware. But the other day I came across an >> educated army officer's wife with four daughters who yet wanted a son. I >> was quite shocked." >> >> Bulbul thinks that the attitude of the Indian male towards sterilization >> is a major obstacle. "I think Indian men - particularly from the working >> class - are terribly selfish and egoistic about childbearing. Sterilization >> strikes them, even when applied to their wives, as an insult to their >> capacity to produce children or an offense to their virility " >> >> Mr K.K. Handa, secretary in a government enterprise, was completely in >> favour of compulsory sterilization. He felt that though sterilization is a >> "stern and strict" measure it nevertheless seems to be becoming a >> necessity, "if there is to be a major control of the country's population >> growth." >> >> A father of two sons, Mr Handa said, "Even if I had daughters, I wouldn't >> have tried for a third child with the hope of producing a son." Children, >> he feels, are expensive and he cannot afford to have more than two. He >> feels that if a parent takes the responsibility of bringing a child into >> this world, they owe the child a comfortable upbringing at least and should >> try to offer the child the best opportunities possible. >> >> However, Mr Handa said he could quite understand why people insist on >> having a son. "How many openings are there for women in India? He felt that >> though there have been tremendous changes in the old concept of women being >> the men's shadows, there is still a great deal left to be one "before the >> position of a daughter becomes equal to that of a son." >> >> Unlike many, Mr Handa is aware that sterilization can be reversed. When >> he went to a doctor to get sterilized the doctor advised him to wait till >> the elder son was at least six years old because of the high infant >> mortality rate. >> >> Mr Handa felt that the reason why so few people believed in sterilization >> was because nobody had bothered to convince the men or women concerned that >> sterilization does not cause impotency and makes no difference in the >> sexual relationship of a couple. >> >> Dhanno is a middle-aged housewife of Masijad Moth village her husband is >> a mali and between them they have produced eleven children, eight of whom >> are living today They are conscious that they have too many children, and >> like couples in their position, are honest enough to believe that >> realization came too late. >> >> As a result Dhanno has to work in the nearby colony of South Extension to >> support her family "What could I do?" she said, "the babies came one after >> the other It is only now I realize how much simpler life would have been >> with fewer children. But now that they are in this world, I naturally wish >> the best for them." >> >> Dhanno had herself sterilized three years ago, after her youngest son, >> who is now three years old, was born in a taxi on the way to the hospital. >> "I was sick and tired of the old routine," she said, talking of child >> bearing and rearing. When she had herself sterilized it was in the face of >> severe opposition from her husband, who knew nothing about it till she had >> actually enrolled herself in the hospital. "He grumbled like mad when he >> had to sign the papers but the doctors finally persuaded him. He kept >> thinking that the operation would kill me, he created a terrible scene in >> the hospital saying, who will look after the children after you are gone," >> said Dhanno laughingly >> >> After her operation was over and she came back to the village, several >> other women, assured by her safety, went along and had themselves >> sterilized. >> >> "But," says Dhanno with pride shining through her eyes, "I was the first. >> I was the one who introduced it in the village." >> >> "Lack of resources and overpopulation is a fatal combination which leads >> to sterilization becoming a necessary evil," said Mrs. R. Bedi, a mother of >> two daughters, a golfing enthusiast, and wife of a Director in Dunlops, >> living in Calcutta.rs. Bedi felt that the initial reaction regarding >> compulsory sterilization was not a very pleasant one. "One tends to >> consider it an encroachment on one's personal rights." But because of the >> explosive problem India is facing, she thought this would be the "quickest >> means to control population growth." >> >> She was of the opinion that it was unnecessary to overpublicize >> sterilization. There are already so many problems in imposing such a >> measure like religious prejudices, superstition and ignorance. Too much >> publicity will only succeed in accentuating them rather than solving them." >> According to her sterilization should be made routine. "Immediately after a >> woman has her third child she should be sterilized." If a couple already >> has more than three children then the operation should be performed on >> whichever partner for whom it is medically simpler " >> >> Commenting on the problems of those who continue to produce children in >> the hope of producing a boy Mrs. Bedi said, "It's one thing to bring in >> children into the world and another to bring up children." She too would >> have liked to have had a son "but there is no guarantee that the next child >> is going to be a boy There has to be a stop somewhere. Besides there are >> more important issues at stake rather than what sex your children belong >> to." >> >> The husband Inderjit is a Sikh and the wife, Nasreen, a Muslim. They have >> three daughters, all under six. Nasreen said she felt compulsory >> sterilization should be enforced, but only in the case of a certain class >> of people. "Those who cannot afford to have more than two to three children >> should not be allowed to produce more." The husband, though of the same >> opinion, felt that unless the couple could be guaranteed a free operation >> to reverse sterilization if their child happened to die or anything like >> that, the operation as a compulsory measure was too harsh. >> >> Who should undergo the operation, the husband or the wife? "The husband >> definitely," said Nasreen. She felt that women had their share of physical >> pain during childbirth and it was about time the husband shared some >> responsibility Nasreen also said that in India, if at all, either one of >> the couple was unfaithful it was usually the husband. Sterilization, she >> thought, could act as a safety measure making it impossible for a man to >> get other women pregnant. Inderjeet also felt that it was better for the >> man to undergo sterilization, though not for the same reason. "There are >> fewer complications and the operation is simpler if performed on a man," he >> said. >> >> With their eldest child already at boarding school, Inderjeet Singh said, >> "I want to be able to give my daughters the best of education, and not just >> in the academic sense. So that they can pursue whatever career they want >> without having to face any difficulties. Frankly, these days it does not >> matter at all-women are doing greater things than men." >> >> Dorcie Roche 24, a Roman Catholic married Michael in February 1975. Since >> she had been working as a help for the past six years, she was keen to >> retain her job. She said, "I enjoy working and I enjoy being married. I did >> not want to have a child immediately My husband did not want a child either >> We thought if I went on what they call 'the pill' I would easily be able to >> prevent having a child." In keeping with her desire she went to the nearest >> Family Planning Centre to get herself a reliable contraceptive. >> >> The doctor on duty dissuaded her from going on the pill explaining, >> "Before having the first child you should not use any contraceptive. It is >> important for you to bear a child. Your age is just right. If you go on the >> pill now it might hamper your being able to conceive when you want to. Have >> your first child and at the most one more, then have yourself sterilized." >> After her visit to the Family Planning Centre, Dorcie was frightened at the >> prospect of not being able to bear any children. In a slight panic she let >> circumstances take their own course, as a result of which she was pregnant >> a month after her marriage. Now she has a beautiful four month-old baby boy >> >> For the future, Dorcie and Michael both plan to wait a couple of years. >> In fact, they are even considering not having any more children so that >> they can concentrate all their resources and care on Perkins Roche-their >> son. "That," said Michael, with considerable pride , "is what matters the >> most-how you bring up your children." >> >> Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> K Rajaram IRS 22225 >> > > > -- > *Mar* > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. 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