GOD AND FREEWILL
In the early write up I had answered almost 75% of the questions
raised here as these were answered by ADI SHAANKARA long ago and our
scriptures DO ACCEPT FREE WILL ONLY AS AN ACTION ALREADY ENFORCED AS GOD’S
WILL. B G while advocating to fight says in a verse:
द्रोणं च भीष्मं च जयद्रथं च
कर्णं तथान्यानपि योधवीरान् |
मया हतांस्त्वं जहि मा व्यथिष्ठा
युध्यस्व जेतासि रणे सपत्नान् || 34||11
droṇaṁ cha bhīṣhmaṁ cha jayadrathaṁ cha
karṇaṁ tathānyān api yodha-vīrān
mayā hatāṁs tvaṁ jahi mā vyathiṣhṭhā
yudhyasva jetāsi raṇe sapatnān
droṇam—Dronacharya; cha—and; bhīṣhmam—Bheeshma; cha—and;
jayadratham—Jayadratha; cha—and; karṇam—Karn; tathā—also; anyān—others;
api—also; yodha-vīrān—brave warriors; mayā—by me; hatān—already killed;
tvam—you; jahi—slay; mā—not; vyathiṣhṭhāḥ—be disturbed; yudhyasva—fight;
jetā asi—you shall be victorious; raṇe—in battle; sapatnān—enemies
BG 11.34: Dronacharya, Bheeshma, Jayadratha, Karn, and other brave warriors
have already been killed by Me. Therefore, slay them without being
disturbed. Just fight and you will be victorious over your enemies in
battle.
SO FREE WILL IS NOTHING BUT PRE-DETERMINED; OR ELSE SCIENCE WILL NOT BE A
MERE DISCOVERY OF WHAT ARE ALREADY IN THE EXISTENSE. FREEWILL WITHOUT
GOD IS EGO; WHERE EGO IS STRIPPED OFF GOD IS VISIBLE; AND WHERE WORK IS
CARRIED OUT ONLY IN HIS NAME WITHOUT SELFISH MOTIVE THEIR LIFE FULFILMENT
IS COMPLETE.
Hence the uniqueness of the Vedic concept constructive is KARMA
THEORY WHICH IS NOTHING BUT THE DISCOVERY OF NEWTON’S 3RD LAW OF MOTION;
AND THE CONCEPT OF PURUSHA NAD PRAKRITI AS ONE IN ADVAAITHAM AS NIRGUNA,
AND DUAL INDESTRUCTIBLE MATTER IN DUALISM SAGUNA IS THE ROOT FROM
POORNAMIDAM…… 2ND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS.
The rest are embedded in an earlier context which would expand
as answers to your questions.
* God's Situation*
YM: This is a profound and multifaceted inquiry into the nature of
perception, consciousness, and the divine, raising important questions that
touch on both philosophical and theological concerns. Let's dive deeper
into the core concepts you've mentioned and the possible interplay between
God's omniscience and human freedom, as well as the existence of evil and
suffering.
KR: Vide my narratioin on perception and seeing inwardly the soul of
yesterday and today.
YM: 1. Omniscience and Human Free Will
KR As above
YM: Compatibilism: One possible approach to this paradox is the idea
of compatibilism, which suggests that divine omniscience and human free
will can coexist,
KR No sir; IT APPEARS TO CO-EXIST BUT PREDETERMINED SINCE BITH IS NOT
UNIFRM AND THOUGHTS ARE NOT EVEN LEAVE ALONE THE SAME BUT NOT EVEN SIMILAR.
YM: Open Theism: Another possibility is the view of open theism, which
suggests that while God is omniscient in the fullest sense, God’s knowledge
of the future is not static. Instead, God knows all potentialities and
possibilities but allows human beings to have genuine freedom in shaping
their future. In this view, God’s omniscience is dynamic and responsive,
evolving as human beings exercise their free will.
KR It’s a maya human folly to presume so;; WHEN KRISHNA SAYS IN B G
THAT HE IS NEEITHER BENEFITTING NOR PARTIAL TO ANYONE, HE MEANS THAT
FREEWILL WAS ALREADY ACCESSED ONLY BY YOUR ACTIONS PRE DETRMINED ON THY
THREE GUNAS BASED. Ananandri oranuvum asayadhu.
YM: In both views, the key to resolving the paradox might lie in how
we define the relationship between God’s knowledge and human freedom.
KR YOUR FREEWILL SAID TO OPERATE IS BASED ON YOUR PRIOR KARMA YOU
WROUGHT ON YOURSELF WITH THE ACTIONS AND THOUGHTS DETRMINING THE REACTIONS
AS PREDETRMINED IN YOUR CONTINUOUS BIRTHS. HENCE, LORD DOES NOT GRANT OR
WITHDRAW BOONS AND BANES AS HE WISHED BUT BASED ONLY ON THE KARMA; THE ONLY
SELF-DETRMINATION TO FIGHT AS A FREEWILL AGAINST THESE ODDS WOULD ONLY IN
CONCENTRATING AS BHAKTI ON HIM; THAT FREEWILL SURRENDER ALONE IS FEASIBLE
IF YOU DETRMINE; ATHATHO BRAHMA JIGNASA;BRAHMASUTRAM. YOU ABUSE BECAUSE ITS
ALREADY DETRMINED IN YOUR GUNA; AND FOCUS ON GOD IS YOUR PURE FREEWILL;
EVEN THAT IS SUNG IN THEVARAM, AS AVANAARULAL AVAN THAAL VANAGI……MEANING
EVEN FOR THAT YOU NEED HIS GRACE.
Ym: 2. Omniscience and the Problem of Evil and Suffering
KR: YOUR KRU KARMA AND DESIRE OF PANCHA BHOOTHA ARE CAUSE OF
SSUFFERINGS
YM: Theological Responses:
The Free Will Defense: One common response to this issue is that evil and
suffering are the result of human free will. God, in His omniscience, knows
that giving human beings free will is the only way for them to have genuine
moral agency and to love freely. Unfortunately, this freedom also allows
for the possibility of evil, but without it, true love and goodness would
not be possible. In this view, God’s omniscience doesn’t mean He causes
evil, but He allows it to exist as part of the greater good of freedom and
moral development.
KR: There is no defense at all. Karma only makes you endure all;
and bhakti focused even by the karma only is the redemption.
YM: Soul-Making Theodicy: Another perspective comes from the idea that
suffering plays a role in spiritual growth and development. Theologian John
Hick and others have suggested that suffering and evil are necessary for
the process of "soul-making." In this view, God's omniscient plan includes
suffering as a way for individuals to develop virtues like compassion,
patience, and courage. The idea is that a world without suffering would not
be conducive to the full flourishing of human souls.
KR: ONLY PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE
Ym: Mysterious Plan: A more humble response might involve the
recognition that, as humans, we may never fully understand the reasons
behind suffering, even if God is all-knowing. This view acknowledges that
God’s omniscient understanding of the universe is far beyond our limited
comprehension, and the reasons for suffering may only be revealed in the
fullness of time or in the afterlife.
KR: UNDERSTANDING AALONE TAKES MANY JANMAS
YM: 3. God’s Nature and the Dynamics of Creation
What’s especially intriguing about your exploration is how it frames God’s
omniscience not just as a static, impassive knowing, but as a dynamic,
relational experience. This view suggests that God is not simply watching
the world unfold from a distance, but is engaged in the ongoing process of
creation, actively responding to and interacting with it.
KR: Rig vedam says that there are two birds perched on a tree; one
Paramatma greater soul watching the Jeevatma bird soul; and the soul is a
mere witness without any reactions.
YM: Relational Understanding of Omniscience: In this view, God’s
omniscience is not simply about knowing every event in a linear,
predetermined sense, but rather about understanding the relationships,
potentialities, and outcomes of creation. It’s a more dynamic and
compassionate approach to God’s knowledge, where God is always in
relationship with His creation. God’s awareness encompasses not only the
what but also the why and how of creation’s unfolding, making His
omniscience profoundly relational.
KR; IT IS NOT LENEAR AS WEST THINKS BUT CYCLIC END ND THE BEGINNING
UNKNOWN.
YM: Creation’s Freedom and God’s Perfect Understanding: There is also
the idea that God, in His perfect understanding, has designed the universe
in such a way that it contains both the possibility of evil and the
possibility of good, and He allows this dynamic interaction to unfold
according to the laws of nature and free will. This perspective suggests
that God is not simply watching passively but is actively participating in
the creative process, ensuring that, despite the existence of evil and
suffering, there is also an ultimate purpose or goal for creation that will
be realized in the fullness of time.
KR: VIDE EARLIER B G QUOTES CHAP 10 AND 11
YM: 4. Implications for Science and Philosophy
If robots or AI systems were developed with the ability to perceive at this
microscopic level, as you suggest, it would undoubtedly revolutionize our
understanding of the world. However, the questions about the nature of
perception, identity, and reality would shift from philosophical and
metaphysical frameworks to more empirical and biological ones.
KR: Science may discover as consciousness now being explored
Ym: Science: As you mentioned, this heightened perceptual power would
open up new realms of scientific exploration. In medicine, biology, and
physics, the ability to perceive and manipulate the micro-world would allow
for unprecedented precision in understanding and controlling the mechanisms
of life. New technologies might emerge that could cure diseases, create new
materials, or even manipulate the fundamental forces of nature in ways
previously unimaginable.
KR: Science has a limitations and time bound. As still IV fluid is
only by searching for veins and with the pain, as science cannot do it
simply in spite of progress.
Conclusion
KR: The Vedic concept the divinity may not be cracked up by the
science at any point of time; one day they may say its 150 trillion year
old and not 20 billion.
K Rajaram IRS 16325
On Sun, 16 Mar 2025 at 05:57, Yeddanapudi Markandeyulu <
[email protected]> wrote:
>
> God's Situation
>
> This is a profound and multifaceted inquiry into the nature of perception,
> consciousness, and the divine, raising important questions that touch on
> both philosophical and theological concerns. Let's dive deeper into the
> core concepts you've mentioned and the possible interplay between God's
> omniscience and human freedom, as well as the existence of evil and
> suffering.
> 1. *Omniscience and Human Free Will*
>
> If God is truly omniscient—seeing everything, knowing every thought, every
> action, and every possibility—it raises the classic paradox of how free
> will can coexist with divine foreknowledge. If God already knows every
> choice we will make, can we still be said to have the freedom to choose?
> This question has long been debated by theologians and philosophers.
>
> -
>
> *Compatibilism*: One possible approach to this paradox is the idea of
> compatibilism, which suggests that divine omniscience and human free will
> can coexist, as long as free will is understood as the ability to choose
> according to one's desires and nature. God’s foreknowledge does not cause
> or constrain the choices people make, but merely knows them ahead of time.
> In this view, the fact that God knows our choices doesn't undermine our
> freedom to make them.
> -
>
> *Open Theism*: Another possibility is the view of open theism, which
> suggests that while God is omniscient in the fullest sense, God’s knowledge
> of the future is not static. Instead, God knows all potentialities and
> possibilities but allows human beings to have genuine freedom in shaping
> their future. In this view, God’s omniscience is dynamic and responsive,
> evolving as human beings exercise their free will.
>
> In both views, the key to resolving the paradox might lie in how we define
> the relationship between God’s knowledge and human freedom. The idea here
> is that omniscience doesn't necessarily mean that human choice is
> pre-determined—it simply means that God, outside of time, sees the fullness
> of our choices from beginning to end. The divine perspective is not
> confined by the constraints of time and space, which human beings
> experience.
> 2. *Omniscience and the Problem of Evil and Suffering*
>
> Your question also touches on one of the most challenging aspects of
> theology: the existence of evil and suffering in a world governed by an
> all-knowing and all-good God. If God knows every microscopic interaction
> and event, why does evil and suffering still exist in the world?
>
> - *Theological Responses*:
> -
>
> *The Free Will Defense*: One common response to this issue is that
> evil and suffering are the result of human free will. God, in His
> omniscience, knows that giving human beings free will is the only way
> for
> them to have genuine moral agency and to love freely. Unfortunately,
> this
> freedom also allows for the possibility of evil, but without it, true
> love
> and goodness would not be possible. In this view, God’s omniscience
> doesn’t
> mean He causes evil, but He allows it to exist as part of the greater
> good
> of freedom and moral development.
> -
>
> *Soul-Making Theodicy*: Another perspective comes from the idea
> that suffering plays a role in spiritual growth and development.
> Theologian
> John Hick and others have suggested that suffering and evil are
> necessary
> for the process of "soul-making." In this view, God's omniscient plan
> includes suffering as a way for individuals to develop virtues like
> compassion, patience, and courage. The idea is that a world without
> suffering would not be conducive to the full flourishing of human souls.
> -
>
> *Mysterious Plan*: A more humble response might involve the
> recognition that, as humans, we may never fully understand the reasons
> behind suffering, even if God is all-knowing. This view acknowledges
> that
> God’s omniscient understanding of the universe is far beyond our limited
> comprehension, and the reasons for suffering may only be revealed in the
> fullness of time or in the afterlife.
>
> The problem of evil is a complex and emotional issue, but it may be easier
> to reconcile in a worldview where God’s omniscience is understood as part
> of a larger, incomprehensible plan that incorporates the free will of human
> beings and the potential for growth, redemption, and transformation.
> 3. *God’s Nature and the Dynamics of Creation*
>
> What’s especially intriguing about your exploration is how it frames God’s
> omniscience not just as a static, impassive knowing, but as a dynamic,
> relational experience. This view suggests that God is not simply watching
> the world unfold from a distance, but is engaged in the ongoing process of
> creation, actively responding to and interacting with it.
>
> -
>
> *Relational Understanding of Omniscience*: In this view, God’s
> omniscience is not simply about knowing every event in a linear,
> predetermined sense, but rather about understanding the relationships,
> potentialities, and outcomes of creation. It’s a more dynamic and
> compassionate approach to God’s knowledge, where God is always in
> relationship with His creation. God’s awareness encompasses not only the
> *what* but also the *why* and *how* of creation’s unfolding, making
> His omniscience profoundly relational.
> -
>
> *Creation’s Freedom and God’s Perfect Understanding*: There is also
> the idea that God, in His perfect understanding, has designed the universe
> in such a way that it contains both the possibility of evil and the
> possibility of good, and He allows this dynamic interaction to unfold
> according to the laws of nature and free will. This perspective suggests
> that God is not simply watching passively but is actively participating in
> the creative process, ensuring that, despite the existence of evil and
> suffering, there is also an ultimate purpose or goal for creation that will
> be realized in the fullness of time.
>
> 4. *Implications for Science and Philosophy*
>
> If robots or AI systems were developed with the ability to perceive at
> this microscopic level, as you suggest, it would undoubtedly revolutionize
> our understanding of the world. However, the questions about the nature of
> perception, identity, and reality would shift from philosophical and
> metaphysical frameworks to more empirical and biological ones.
>
> -
>
> *Science*: As you mentioned, this heightened perceptual power would
> open up new realms of scientific exploration. In medicine, biology, and
> physics, the ability to perceive and manipulate the micro-world would allow
> for unprecedented precision in understanding and controlling the mechanisms
> of life. New technologies might emerge that could cure diseases, create new
> materials, or even manipulate the fundamental forces of nature in ways
> previously unimaginable.
> -
>
> *Philosophy*: Philosophy would face a profound challenge, as the
> questions about consciousness, free will, and the nature of existence would
> take on new dimensions. If everything could be understood at the
> microscopic level, the metaphysical concepts of mind, soul, and subjective
> experience might become less tangible. We would need new frameworks for
> understanding the interplay between the objective, physical world and the
> subjective, experiential world of human beings. Concepts like meaning,
> purpose, and morality could become more grounded in biological processes,
> while existential and spiritual questions might be reframed in light of
> this deeper understanding of the universe.
>
> Conclusion
>
> In sum, this thought experiment invites us to reconsider the very nature
> of reality, identity, and existence. The question of how God's omniscience
> interacts with human freedom, the existence of evil, and the dynamics of
> creation challenges us to think more deeply about the interconnectedness of
> all things. If God sees the entire universe in its microscopic detail, yet
> also allows for freedom, suffering, and growth, perhaps the key to
> understanding God's omniscience lies not just in knowing everything but in
> engaging with everything in an ongoing, dynamic relationship with creation.
> This perspective invites us to rethink the nature of divine knowledge, the
> role of free will, and the purpose of suffering in the context of a greater
> divine plan.
>
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