The reply of Vichitra is a mere assertion rather than writing with a proof
which is demanded by him/her. Assertions are not logical. And there is not
even a science. Many atheists started their arguments without study in
depth of all, but by mere disagreements. One such was a school inspector
of the British days who was making fun of Hinduism. There was in Bengal
Easwara chandra vidya sagar. He, as a student in that class, requested the
inspector to reply to a few questions. That Inspector thought afterall a
kid ; so shoot it. ECV Sagar asked what darkness is, sir; he blinked
but said yes to the absence of light. Then asked Sagar, what is coolness
sir?; Inspector replied easily ABSENCE OF HEAT. Then shot the last, why
satan?; Inspector shunned; Sagar said ABSENCE OF GOD. There is only one
coin which has both the satan and god; it depends on how we spin it and
perceive. In Hinduism we say advaitham; all are one only and if there is
positive there is negative also. Choice is yours to spin. But CAUSE AND
EFFECT OF YOUR SPIN YOU MAY NOT ESCAPE. iN CHRISTIANITY SATAN IS ALSO YOUR
GUIDE. HERE IT IS A FORCE OF DESTRUCTION SAMBHAVAMI YUGE YUGE.
tHE CONTENTS OF THE rIG vEDAM OR ALL VEDAS AND uPANISHADS ARE
JUICED IN THE PRECIOUS bHGAVAT gITA WHERE lORD SAID:
Verses 14.10 to 14.18
रजस्तमश्चाभिभूय सत्त्वं भवति भारत ।
रज: सत्त्वं तमश्चैव तम: सत्त्वं रजस्तथा ॥14.10॥
rajas tamaś cābhibhūya sattvaṁ bhavati bhārata
rajaḥ sattvaṁ tamaś caiva tamaḥ sattvaṁ rajas tathā
O descendant of Bharata, sometimes the mode of goodness (sattva) becomes
prominent by overpowering passion and ignorance. Sometimes passion (rajas)
dominates, overpowering goodness and ignorance, and at other times,
ignorance (tamas) prevails, overpowering goodness and passion.
When, in this body, all the senses get illuminated by knowledge, then one
should know that goodness (sattva) has become prominent.
O best of the Bharatas, when the mode of passion becomes prominent, greed,
excessive activity, the undertaking of many actions, restlessness, and
intense desires arise.
O descendant of the Kurus, when the mode of ignorance increases, darkness,
inactivity, negligence, and delusion arise.
यदा सत्त्वे प्रवृद्धे तु प्रलयं याति देहभृत् ।
तदोत्तमविदां लोकानमलान्प्रतिपद्यते ॥14.14॥
yadā sattve pravṛddhe tu pralayaṁ yāti deha-bhṛt
tadottama-vidāṁ lokān amalān pratipadyate
When one dies with predominance of sattva, that embodied soul attains the
pure worlds of the wise who know the highest truths.
rajasi pralayaṁ gatvā karma-saṅgiṣu jāyate
tathā pralīnas tamasi mūḍha-yoniṣu jāyate
When one dies with predominance of rajas, they are reborn among those
engaged in fruitive activities. Similarly, dying with predominance of
tamas, one takes birth in the wombs of the deluded.
karmaṇaḥ sukṛtasya āhuḥ sāttvikaṁ nirmalaṁ phalam
rajasas tu phalaṁ duḥkham ajñānaṁ tamasaḥ phalam
It is said that action performed in the mode of sattva results in purity;
action done in the mode of rajas results in misery; and actions performed
in the mode of tamas results in darkness.
सत्त्वात्सञ्जायते ज्ञानं रजसो लोभ एव च ।
प्रमादमोहौ तमसो भवतोऽज्ञानमेव च ॥14.17॥
sattvāt sañjāyate jñānaṁ rajaso lobha eva ca
pramāda-mohau tamaso bhavato ‘jñānam eva ca
>From the mode of sattva arises knowledge, from the mode of rajas arises
greed, and from the mode of tamas arise carelessness, delusion, and surely
ignorance as well.
ऊर्ध्वं गच्छन्ति सत्त्वस्था मध्ये तिष्ठन्ति राजसा: ।
जघन्यगुणवृत्तस्था अधो गच्छन्ति तामसा: ॥14.18॥
ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ
jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtta-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ
ऊर्ध्वम् (ūrdhvam) – upwards; गच्छन्ति (gacchanti) – go; सत्त्वस्था:
(sattva-sthāḥ) – those situated in the mode of goodness; मध्ये (madhye) –
in the middle; तिष्ठन्ति (tiṣṭhanti) – remain; राजसा: (rājasāḥ) – those in
the mode of passion; जघन्य (jaghanya) – abominable; गुणवृत्तस्था:
(guṇa-vṛtta-sthāḥ) – those under the influence of the modes; अध: (adhaḥ) –
downwards; गच्छन्ति (gacchanti) – go; तामसा: (tāmasāḥ) – those in the mode
of ignorance;
Those situated in the mode of goodness gradually go upward to the higher
planets; those in the mode of passion live on the earthly planets; and
those in the mode of ignorance, abiding in the lowest qualities, go down to
the hellish worlds.
As discussed in the previous set of shlokas, this chapter of the Bhagavad
Gita focuses on the intricate dynamics of the three gunas (modes) of
material nature—sattva (goodness), rajas (passion), and tamas (ignorance).
These gunas are the fundamental constituents of Prakriti (material nature)
and influence every aspect of the embodied soul’s existence. Lord Krishna
explains how these gunas compete among themselves for dominance within an
individual and how they shape one’s mental states, actions, desires, and
ultimate spiritual trajectory.
Influence of Food and Environment
The Chandogya Upanishad (6.5.4) states:
अन्नमयम् हि सोम्य मन:
annamayam hi somya manaḥ
The mind is made of the essence of what we eat.
This Upanishadic statement highlights that the quality of our mind depends
significantly on the quality and nature of our diet. Pure, nutritious, and
sattvic food helps cultivate a mind inclined towards clarity and balance.
In modern parallels, it is often said in the West: “We are what we eat.” If
one consumes rajasic or tamasic foods (excessively spicy, stale, processed,
or harmful), the mind and senses become agitated or dulled accordingly.
Alongside food, the activities we engage in, the company we keep, and the
media we consume influence our mental states. By consciously choosing
sattvic influences (clean diet, serene surroundings, company of wise and
spiritual people, study of sacred texts), we can tilt the internal balance
towards goodness.
The Nine Gates and the Body as a City
The body has been compared to a city with nine gates (navadvāra-purī).
These nine gates are the two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, the mouth, the
genitals, and the anus. Through these “openings” the external world
interacts with our inner consciousness. In Gita 5.13, Shri Krishna states:
सर्वकर्माणि मनसा संन्यस्यास्ते सुखं वशी ।
नवद्वारे पुरे देही नैव कुर्वन्न कारयन् ॥
sarva-karmāṇi manasā sannyasyāste sukhaṁ vaśī
nava-dvāre pure dehī naiva kurvann kārayan
The embodied being who has renounced all actions mentally lives happily in
the city of nine gates (the body), neither acting nor causing action.
The implication is that while the soul temporarily resides in this
body-city, it can maintain inner happiness if it renounces the sense of
doership and attachment to results. This resonates with the concept of
becoming a witness or an observer of the interplay of the gunas rather than
being under their control like a puppet.
Shri Krishna explains in BG 14.11 that when all the doors or senses of the
body are illuminated by knowledge, then we know sattva is predominant.
Light entering all gates means the senses perceive truth as it is,
unclouded by delusion. The soul, while dwelling within, recognizes its
nature and the unity underlying existence.
Destinies After Death (BG 14.14–14.15)
Shri Krishna explains that at the time of death, the predominant guna
determines the soul’s next destination. One’s final thoughts and mental
state become the launching pad for the next birth. This aligns with the
broader Hindu teaching that the consciousness at death shapes the future
journey of the soul.
1.
Sattva at Death: When leaving the body while predominantly in sattva,
one attains pure worlds inhabited by those who have realized the Self or
have at least acquired higher knowledge (uttama-vidām lokān, as the Gita
states). The word “amalan” (pure, spotless) indicates that these higher
realms or births offer excellent opportunities to continue on the spiritual
path. Such births may place one among wise sages or in conditions favorable
for spiritual advancement, making liberation more accessible.
2.
Rajas at Death: Dying under the dominance of rajas leads one to be
reborn among those attached to material rewards and ceaseless activity
(karma-saṅgiṣu). Such births provide opportunities for worldly enjoyment,
possibly even heavenly realms where desires can be temporarily fulfilled,
but they do not inherently facilitate liberation. One remains bound to the
wheel of action and reaction.
3.
Tamas at Death: Passing away under the influence of tamas results in
births in ignorant or deluded species. Krishna mentions “mūḍha-yoniṣu,”
referring to animal births or lower forms of life where spiritual progress
is nearly impossible. In such states, the soul experiences severe
limitations, making it hard to break free from ignorance. The texts remind
us that merely being human now does not guarantee remaining human in the
next birth. The risk of regression into lower life forms is real if we
cultivate tamas and fail to pursue spiritual goals.
As per Vedantic teachings, there are over 8.4 million species, and our soul
can keep cycling through these various species endlessly. And being human
is a rare opportunity for liberation. Thus, Shri Krishna emphasizes the
seriousness of properly utilizing one’s human life.
Fruits of Actions in Each Guna
Shri Krishna states:
-
Sattva leads to purity (nirmalam phalam).
-
Rajas leads to suffering (duḥkham).
-
Tamas leads to darkness and ignorance (ajñānam).
Actions influenced by sattva purify the mind, bringing one closer to truth
and ultimately reducing one’s karmic burden. Rajasic actions, done with
desire and attachment, create mental agitation, dissatisfaction, and future
bondage. Tamasic actions deepen the darkness and confusion, blocking
spiritual growth.
The cycle is self-reinforcing. If we act under sattva, we become more
sattvic; acting under rajas drags us deeper into restless pursuits; acting
under tamas plunges us further into inertia and despair.
Knowledge from Sattva, Greed from Rajas, and Ignorance from Tamas
>From each guna, certain qualities arise:
-
From sattva: knowledge and clarity arise.
-
From rajas: unending greed and dissatisfaction manifest.
-
From tamas: carelessness, delusion, and profound ignorance spring forth.
A sattvic person is naturally inclined towards scriptural study,
meditation, and ethical conduct. A rajasic person finds it hard to even
consider renouncing the fruits of actions (as advised in BG 2.47) because
the mind constantly chases results. A tamasic person may barely recognize
higher ideals or even see the point of spiritual life, being stuck in a
cycle of confusion and inertia.
These verses do not merely impart theoretical knowledge. They warn and
inspire the listener to cultivate goodness and strive to rise above even
sattva into transcendence. Vedanta sees life as a ladder. While tamas is at
the bottom and must be overcome, rajas can help us break free from
stagnation, and sattva can guide us toward clarity and self-realization.
Eventually, however, one must transcend all three gunas, recognizing
oneself as the pure ātman, beyond material nature.
Practical Takeaways
The teachings given by Lord Krishna between 14.10 and 14.18 paint a roadmap
for inner evolution. By understanding how the gunas operate and influence
our actions, thoughts, and destiny, we gain a powerful tool for
self-improvement:
-
We learn to assess our current state: Are we predominantly rajasic,
restless, and materialistic? Are we sunk in tamas, unable to move forward
spiritually? Or are we moving towards sattva, becoming clearer in mind and
heart?
-
We realize the importance of conscious living, healthy eating, proper
association, and spiritual practice to cultivate sattva.
-
We acknowledge the urgency in human life to strive upwards toward
liberation rather than remain stagnant or regress downward into less
conscious forms of existence.
-
We recognize the role of thought momentum: by deliberately choosing
uplifting, sattvic thoughts and remembering God, we can break out of
negative cycles and move toward higher consciousness.
This integrated understanding should inspire the seeker to apply these
principles in daily life, transforming ordinary routines into opportunities
for spiritual growth. Eventually, having ascended through the gunas to a
platform of sattva, the dedicated aspirant can endeavor to transcend even
sattva and directly realize the Supreme Reality (Brahman), beyond all
dualities and modes.
Such is the essence and purpose behind these verses and their commentaries.
They guide the soul from darkness to light, from restlessness to peace, and
from limitation to infinite freedom.
Supreme Brahman is everything. He has two forms: Manifest and
Unmanifest. All dualities such as good&bad, evil&virtue are indeed Supreme
Brahman's MAYA.
Krishna describes Himself as Positive entities of all dualities,
deliberately leaving negative entities. For Example,
Bhagavad Gita 10.22
<http://www.bhagavad-gita.us/bhagavad-gita-10-22/#more-607>
vedānāḿ sāma-vedo ’smi
devānām asmi vāsavaḥ
indriyāṇāḿ manaś cāsmi
bhūtānām asmi cetanā
Of the Vedas I am the Sama Veda; of the demigods I am Indra, the king of
heaven; of the senses I am the mind; and in living beings I am the living
force [consciousness].
Bhagavad Gita 10.23 <http://www.bhagavad-gita.us/bhagavad-gita-10-23/>
rudrāṇāḿ śańkaraś cāsmi
vitteśo yakṣa-rakṣasām
vasūnāḿ pāvakaś cāsmi
meruḥ śikhariṇām aham
Of all the Rudras I am Lord Shankara, of the Yakshas and Rakshasas I am the
Lord of wealth [Kuvera], of the Vasus I am fire [Agni], and of mountains I
am Meru. "Know that all states of being – be they of goodness, passion or
ignorance – are manifested by My energy. I am, in one sense, everything,
but I am independent. I am not under the modes of material nature, for
they, on the contrary, are within Me." (Bhagavad Gita, 7.12) “Pra” prefix
means “principal” and “Kriti” means “creation”. Thus the word convey the
meaning “one that is principal factor for creation”. Some other derivations
include: (b) “Pra” means “sattvik”, “Kru” means “rajasik” and “ta” means
“tamasik” and the word “Prakriti” thus conveys the power of the three gunas
<https://www.carakasamhitaonline.com/index.php?title=Guna>. (c) “Pra” means
“before” and “Kriti” means creation and so Prakriti means that which
existed before creation.
Moreverses where both the opposites are HIMSELF. So casting
there was bad and so a sin, presume that there is only negative without a
positive to name it so. Also Karma has so many meanings and a sanskrit word
has 30 meanings power se. Hence B G said KRU in a dextrous manner as:
Bg. 18.63
इति ते ज्ञानमाख्यातं गुह्याद्गुह्यतरं मया ।
विमृश्यैतदशेषेण यथेच्छसि तथा कुरु ॥ ६३ ॥
iti te jñānam ākhyātaṁ
guhyād guhya-taraṁ mayā
vimṛśyaitad aśeṣeṇa
yathecchasi tathā kuru
Thus I have explained to you knowledge still more confidential. Deliberate
on this fully, and then do what you wish to do.
K Rajaram IRS 27625
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 at 22:54, Vichitra Thandava <[email protected]>
wrote:
> It's a generic original sin and a single original sinner as stated and
> intended not the Catholic myth.
>
> There is no good without a bad first. It is the bad that sets the circular
> logic in motion as the offset isn't ever exact in practice... Overshoot and
> undershoot against the original sin appears the norm.
>
> Therefore too, the original sinner has a one-time free will that's forgone
> with the commitment of the original sin.
>
> The question of do good or help does not arise at all without a bad first.
>
> What a waste, even if a partly entertaining and an entirely dramatic one!
>
> Also worth considering in this context Koenraad's idea that the Vedas do
> not have the karmic circular reincarnation model and that it may have been
> "borrowed" later from the eastern Shakta or Buddhist traditions. It is
> unlikely that the Vedic rishis were unaware, but did they consider it
> important enough to omit, if Koenraad is right? Please correct me if I
> misrepresented you, Koenraad.
>
> In Catholicism and among Abrahamics, the original sinner is not Eve as
> cited in their dogma but Lucifer who plants the idea of carnal
> reproduction, if that can even qualify as a sin in itself - sin defined as
> a deliberate injury or pain to another - I don't think so.
>
> On Thu, Jun 26, 2025, 2:17 AM Nagaraj Paturi <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> I keyed in "originial sin vs karma theory" in the google browser :
>>
>> The first return, as it is nowadays happening was google's generative AI
>> .So the following is as obvious as to the google's generative AI:
>>
>> Original sin and karma are distinct concepts with contrasting views on
>> human nature and the source of suffering. Original sin, a Christian
>> doctrine, posits that all humans are born sinful due to the actions of Adam
>> and Eve. Karma, prevalent in Hinduism and Buddhism, proposes that
>> individuals are responsible for their actions and their consequences,
>> shaping their future lives through a cycle of cause and effect.
>> Original Sin:
>>
>> - *Core Idea:*
>> Humanity is inherently flawed and sinful due to the transgression of
>> Adam and Eve, inheriting a corrupted nature and a tendency towards sin.
>> - *Source of Suffering:*
>> Suffering is a consequence of humanity's fallen state and separation
>> from God.
>> - *Focus:*
>> Emphasizes inherited sinfulness and the need for redemption through
>> faith in Jesus Christ.
>> - *Key Text:*
>> Genesis (Christian Bible).
>>
>> Karma:
>>
>> - *Core Idea:*
>> Every action, thought, and intention creates a corresponding effect,
>> shaping future circumstances, including rebirths.
>> - *Source of Suffering:*
>> Suffering arises from past negative actions, while positive actions
>> lead to positive outcomes.
>> - *Focus:*
>> Emphasizes individual responsibility for actions and the potential
>> for liberation from suffering through ethical conduct and spiritual
>> practice.
>> - *Key Concepts:*
>> Dharma (righteous conduct) and liberation from the cycle of rebirth
>> (samsara).
>>
>> Key Differences:
>>
>> - *Origin of Sin/Suffering:*
>> Original sin attributes suffering to inherited sinfulness, while
>> karma attributes it to individual actions.
>> - *Nature of Humanity:*
>> Original sin views humans as inherently flawed, while karma
>> acknowledges humans as capable of both good and bad actions.
>> - *Redemption:*
>> Original sin emphasizes redemption through divine grace, while karma
>> emphasizes self-effort and ethical conduct.
>> - *Scope:*
>> Original sin primarily applies to humans, while karma applies to all
>> sentient beings.
>>
>> In essence, original sin focuses on a state of inherited sinfulness and
>> the need for divine intervention, while karma emphasizes the law of cause
>> and effect and individual responsibility for shaping one's destiny through
>> actions.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 2:40 PM Vishal J <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I would say the intent is to accept the reality as it is without getting
>>> disturbed, and to live in harmony with others (not just the human species)
>>> and the planet.
>>> Nothing in karma theory can be proved by anything in modern science and
>>> tech as of today.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 26, 2025, 12:12 Vichitra Thandava <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "And therefore, there must be an original sin and an original sinner.
>>>>
>>>> And therefore, there cannot be have been an original good deed and good
>>>> doer."
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> an email to [email protected].
>>>> To view this discussion visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAJFXi148ekrg492w3KqB30Vyu-%3DPeMjKpwouyeFxzv3qxxP5OQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAJFXi148ekrg492w3KqB30Vyu-%3DPeMjKpwouyeFxzv3qxxP5OQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>> --
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAF%3DFknU%2BWJQ0vsqoB6qiZOwgugaTX9d3awJ1mW7rgrv%2B%2B%3DcJEg%40mail.gmail.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAF%3DFknU%2BWJQ0vsqoB6qiZOwgugaTX9d3awJ1mW7rgrv%2B%2B%3DcJEg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>> Kulapati | Vice-Chancellor, INDICA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAJFXi14zpt9Lh69tpEn4Wwwa8TZgRiw8Tkbqo8iVDPgATBd7_Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
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