Well the first errors are that the NTP RFC numbers are wrong! They
should be 5905 (NTP v4), 5906 (Autokey), 5907 (MIB), and 5908 (DHCP
Options).

Danny
On 9/1/2010 12:22 PM, Karen O'Donoghue wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> Below are the minutes for our July meeting. My apologies for the delay
> in getting them out. If you have any comments, we have until 15 Sept to
> submit changes.
> 
> Thanks,
> Karen
> 
> ####################
> Joint NTP/TICTOC Working Group Meeting
> Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 1520 – 1700
> 
> The jabber log can be found at:
> http://jabber.ietf.org/logs/tictoc/2010-07-27.txt
> 
> The meeting was called to order by co-chairs Yaakov Stein and
> Karen O'Donoghue. Sterling Knickerbocker took the minutes, and
> Brian Haberman acted as jabber scribe. Blue sheets were
> distributed, and the note well warning presented.
> 
> The proposed agenda was:
> 1. NTP issues
> - Karen
> 2. 1588 over MPLS
> - Yaakov
> - Shahram
> - Ron Cohen
> - Lizhong Jin (P2MP LSP with co-routed reverse path)
> 3. Timing Security
> - Stefano
> - Rock
> 4. Timing Management
> - Tim Frost
> 5. Other
> - Stefano (ITU SG15 Q13 status update)
> 
> NTP issues
> ==========
> Slides:
> www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/tictoc-10/tictoc-10.htm
> 
> Karen O'Donoghue reviewed recent accomplishments in the NTP WG.
> The four primary documents have been published as RFCs (RFC3505,
> RFC3506, RFC3507, RFC3508). There is a new draft under
> discussion on list (draft-chen-ntps-ra-opt-00.txt). There is
> some concern about whether this option should be supported at
> all. Further discussion is requested on the mailing list, and
> guidance has been solicited from the 6man working group chairs.
> 
> There has been some discussion regarding moving the core NTP RFC
> further along the IETF standards track because of its level of
> maturity. Further discussion will be held off until after the
> Administrative Plenary due to the possible changes to that
> process. Yaakov commented that discussions have taken place
> about making exceptions for standards track documents and the
> multiple implementation requirement.
> 
> ITU SG15 Q13 status update
> ==========================
> Slides:
> www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/tictoc-4/tictoc-4.htm
> 
> Stefano Ruffini presented an update on the activities of ITU-T
> SG15 Q13 which has been in operation since 2004. Several
> recommendations have been completed including G.8261, G.8262,
> and G.8264. An IEEE 1588 Frequency profile is under development
> and will be followed by a Time of Day profile. Additional
> details are available in the slides.
> 
> Danny Mayer asked why there were no IPv6 based profiles under
> development in the ITU-T. Stefano indicated that it could be
> could be a future work item. Peter Lothberg asked which version
> of UTC is being specified. Stefano responded that it is the most
> local UTC, and Peter commented that several companies may have
> several UTC sources that may not match within the desired
> performance window.
> 
> 1588 over MPLS
> ==============
> 
> There were four presentations related to IEEE 1588 over MPLS.
> 
> 1588 MPLS encapsulation
> -----------------------
> Slides:
> www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/tictoc-0/tictoc-0.htm
> 
> Yaakov Stein presented a summary of the 1588 MPLS encapsulations
> options discussed at IETF77 and discussed what would need to be
> done next. There was a fair amount of discussion related to the
> basic requirements associated with this effort. One question
> asked was why do you need special treatment for timing packets.
> We need to more clearly articulate the requirements and see if
> there are already tools in MPLS to address them. Putting
> timestamps as close to the hardware as possible has already been
> solved. If a Boundary Clock (BC) or Transparent Clock (TC) is
> used, work will be required to handle the signaling. How is
> packet routing/rerouting handled? Luca Martini commented that we
> need to define the service of the network. A transparent clock
> will only work on a known network. Define an MPLS label so the
> network knows it is a timing packet and what to do with it. The
> requirement for pursuing a special encapsulation is not clear,
> and the specifications required for the encapsulation are not
> developed.
> 
> 1588 over MPLS
> --------------
> Slides:
> www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/tictoc-5/tictoc-5.htm
> 
> Yaakov Stein presented a set of slides for Shahram Davari who
> was unable to attend. These slides propose an approach to IEEE
> 1588 encapsulation. Luca Martini commented that this is fine
> with respect to encapsulation but still needs some signaling
> work. Something needs to be updated so the router can recognize
> this as a timing packet. Another question was does the router
> need to recognize it as a timing packet? Does 1588 support P2MP
> LSPs? It appears the answer is yes for both Ethernet and IP.
> Peter commented that you need to make sure you do not hard code
> the solution. There was a comment that TCs are not needed;
> however, Steffano commented that TCs are needed for very
> accurate time sync. Mark Glasser commented that we should
> reorder the options because some are harder/more work. This
> appears to be an easier solution.
> 
> (Direct) PTP over MPLS
> ----------------------
> Slides:
> www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/tictoc-8/tictoc-8.htm
> Draft:
> draft-ronc-ptp-mps-00.txt (expired)
> 
> Ron Cohen provided an overview of his expired draft on PTP over
> MPLS providing a justification for PTP directly over MPLS. Peter
> Lothberg asked how big is the MPLS cloud in km or miles? If you
> make it large, say 500km of fiber, the delay variation will be
> on the order of 200ns. Craig commented that it is assumed that
> you can synchronize the boundaries of the MPLS cloud, but that
> is the basis of the problem – how do we sync the clocks on the
> edge of the cloud? Craig asked if we have looked at the effects
> on time sync if the service being provided may not have the same
> time reference in the LSR when supporting multiple clocks.
> Further discussion was moved to the mailing list.
> 
> P2MP LSP with co-routed reverse path
> ------------------------------------
> Slides:
> www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/tictoc-1/tictoc-1.htm
> 
> Lizhong Jin presented a set of slides on P2MP LSP with co-routed
> reverse path. Yaakov commented that trying to force two slaves
> to send their delay_req at different times to avoid congestion
> at the Grandmaster sounds complicated. Further discussion was
> moved to the mailing list.
> 
> Timing Security
> ===============
> 
> There were two presentations on timing security.
> 
> Stefano Ruffini: Packet Timing Security Aspects.
> ------------------------------------------------
> Slides:
> www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/tictoc-2/tictoc-2.htm
> 
> Stefano provided a discussion on some thoughts on basic
> architecture and requirements with respect to timing and
> security and possible ITU-T efforts. This is one area where the
> ITU-T would like to be able to leverage work done in the IETF.
> 
> Security Requirement for 1588v2 over IPSec
> ------------------------------------------
> Slides:
> www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/tictoc-3/tictoc-3.htm
> 
> Rock presented two proposed approaches in 3GPP and ITU for IEEE
> 1588v2 protection using IPsec, entire protection and partial
> protection. In the entire protection approach, all of the 1588v2
> packets are protected with IPsec. For partial protections, the
> general messages are protected while the event messages are not.
> There was concern expressed that encryption of timing packets
> would impact the synchronization accuracy. Further discussion
> has highlighted the difference between encrypting timing packets
> to secure them versus having to compensate for transmission of
> timing packets over a link that is encrypted. Further discussion
> on the topic is required. It was also unclear whether this work
> should be pursued in the TICTOC or IPSecME working groups.
> 
> Timing Management
> =================
> Drafts:
> draft-frost-tictoc-management-00.txt
> draft-frost-tictoc-ptp-slave-mib-00.txt
> 
> Slides:
> www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/tictoc-6/tictoc-6.htm
> www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/tictoc-7/tictoc-7.htm
> 
> Tim Frost presented two drafts on network management. Due to
> time constraints, discussion was moved to the mailing list. The
> chairs thanked Tim for the submission of drafts to initiate the
> conversation.
> 
> Karen wrapped up meeting with a reminder to attendees to ask
> your questions on the mailing list as some may have been missed
> during the meeting. The chairs also indicated that they plan to
> hold a series of conference calls to progress to work before the
> next meeting. The chairs thanked everyone for the contributions
> and discussion.
> 
> The meeting was adjourned at 17:05 pm.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TICTOC mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc
> 
> 

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