Sorry, I forgot to add the reference [1]. It is:

1.      Modadugu, N. and E. Rescorla. The Design and Implementation of Datagram 
TLS. in NDSS. 2004.


> Am 24.03.2016 um 11:04 schrieb Dieter Sibold <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>:
> 
>> 
>> Am 23.03.2016 um 18:27 schrieb Kurt Roeckx <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>:
>> 
>> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 04:01:41AM -0400, Sharon Goldberg wrote:
>>> Dear WG,
>>> 
>>> Another question, and please forgive me if this was discussed already and I
>>> missed it.
>>> 
>>> It would be helpful to know why NTS is not just just running over IPsec. (I
>>> can see why running NTP over TLS makes little sense, since TLS runs over
>>> TCP while NTP runs over UDP so everything would probably
>>> break.) But NTP runs over IP. I suppose there are some performance
>>> hits to using IPsec? What are they?
>> 
>> I think the main problem is that they don't want that many IPsec
>> tunnels at the same time.  As far as I understand it, the design
>> wants to avoid storing this much state information on the server
>> side.  I'm not sure I agree with this design decision.
>> 
>> It could also use DTLS instead of TLS, which does work over UDP.
> 
> At the time we discovered that we cannot use NTP’s autokey approach we also 
> considered to use DTLS. However at this time there has been hardly any 
> implementation of it. Also we learned from  [1] that DTLS is not target for 
> an application with a communication pattern like NTP.
> 
> "Note that the requirement to create a session means that DTLS is primarily 
> suited for long- lived “connection-oriented” protocols as opposed to to- 
> tally connectionless ones like DNS. Connectionless proto- cols are better 
> served by application layer object-security protocols.“
> 
> It might be that today DTLS’ scope has broadened.
> 
> I also want to point out that last year Florian Weimer proposed to utilize 
> DTLS for the key exchange. We regarded his suggestion and moved the CMS based 
> key exchange into an appendix. In the normative part of the document we 
> specified the requirements that have to be meet during the initial phase of 
> NTS. See 6.1.1 in 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ntp-network-time-security-12 
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ntp-network-time-security-12>
> The NTS for NTP draft requires that the CMS-based key exchange is to be 
> implemented. However it allows also the implementation of an alternative key 
> exchange, e.g. DTLS, see 4.1 in 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp-04 
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp-04>
> 
> 
>> 
>> (D)TLS can already store the session on the client side, and
>> give that to the server on "resumption".  But maybe that would
>> require too many packets?
>> 
>> I'm also worried about the soundness of the crypto.  I have a
>> feeling this is designed by people that don't have enough
>> background to design something like this.  I think it needs to be
>> looked at by several people who do.  I've asked about this before
>> but nobody ever replied to it.
>> 
> 
> We frequently invited people to review the documents. So did the chair of 
> NTP’s working group. Also Kristof gave a presentation of the documents in the 
> SAAG session of 91st IETF.
> 
>> 
>> Kurt
>> 
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