On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 02:26:08PM +0000, Jiangyuanlong wrote:
> Hi Ben,
> 
> I think all the questions on terminologies or units are mainly triggered due 
> to the lack of access to the IEEE 1588-2008 standard. They are defined there 
> (with much more details and explanations) and have been used widely in the 
> industry for quite a long time. 

Indeed, this topic is quite related to Ben's point about document access.
Though I think generally we still want our documents to be able to stand
alone in some sense, so there's a balance to find.

> Perhaps Karen can help to make an arrangement with the IEEE 1588 WG, so that 
> some electronic copies of IEEE 1588-2008 can be sent to the reviewers in the 
> IETF.
> 
> Please see my further replies prefixed with [YJ]. 

Thanks.  My apologies for some of the incomplete/incoherent comments;
I had to stop mid-review and forgot to do a cleanup pass before balloting.
Thank you for doing your best to pick out what I was trying to say!

> Thanks much for the review and comments.
> 
> Regards,
> Yuanlong
> 
> ----------------Snipped----------------------------
> > 
> > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tictoc-1588v2-yang/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > DISCUSS:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > I appreciate that there has been some previous work in this area, but it
> > seems that there are still many instances of bare integral types with no
> > indication of what units are used to report a numerical value, whether
> > larger or smaller priority values indicate a more preferred status, how the
> > sign of an "offset" measurement should be interpreted, etc.  This leaves
> > the specification unimplementable in an interoperable way.  A (possibly
> > incomplete) list of such values includes:
> > 
> > clock-class (is this really more like an enum than an int?)
> > clock-accuracy (ditto?)
> > offset-scaled-log-variance
> > priority1 (are small or large values more-preferred?)
> > priority2 (ditto)
> > offset-from-master (interpretation of sign bit)
> > observed-parent-offset-scaled-log-variance
> > observed-parent-clock-phase-change-rate
> > grandmaster-priority1
> > grandmaster-priority2
> > current-utc-offset (sign bit)
> > time-source (is this more like an enum?)
> > log-min-delay-req-interval (units have to be scaled out before log 
> > operation)
> > log-announce-intervale (ditto)
> > log-sync-interval (ditto)
> > log-min-pdelay-req-interval (ditto, two different nodes)
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > COMMENT:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Section 1
> > 
> >    o  When the IEEE 1588 standard is revised (e.g. the IEEE 1588
> >    revision in progress at the time of writing this document), it will
> >    add some new optional features to its data sets.  The YANG module
> >    of this document MAY be revised and extended to support these new
> >    features. Moreover, the YANG "revision" SHOULD be used to indicate
> >    changes to the YANG module under such a circumstance.
> > 
> > It's not clear that a 2119 SHOULD is best here; I would have expected
> > either an 8174 "should" or a 2119 "MUST".
> > 
> [YJ] Are you suggesting to use "must" or "MUST"? Otherwise, I think "should" 
> is similar to "SHOULD".

I was suggesting "MUST".

> 
> > Section 3
> > 
> > time-interval-type says "units of nanoseconds and multiplied by 2^16".
> > I assume I'm interperting that wrong, since there doesn't seem to be much
> > point in claiming a precision in yoctoseconds.
> > 
> > Most "log" values specify the "base-two logarithm", but
> > offsetScaledLogVariance has a much more vague description.  Lacking access
> > to IEEE 1588-2008, I can't tell if it is possible to be more precise for
> > describing this field.  (Also, you can only take the log of a dimensionless
> > quantity, so the input units need to be specified, per my Discuss.)
> > 
> > > slave-only clock
> > 
> > So we had this long discussion on [email protected] about potentially offensive
> > terminology, including "master"/"slave".
> [YJ] Are you suggesting to change the terminologies? These are well accepted 
> terms in the IEEE 1588, people there will be much confused if terms are 
> changed.

I'm not suggesting to change it, no.  There's a tradeoff to make when the
existing terms are well-known already, and this is not the right place to
start to make a change, especially since we don't have an IETF consensus
position yet.

> > 
> > We have leap59/leap61; might we need a leap62?
> > 
> [YJ] A leap second is a one-second adjustment that is occasionally applied to 
> Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) in order to keep its time of day close to 
> the mean solar time (UT1). Thus, only 59 or 61 is possible (i.e., 1 second 
> ahead or backward), and we don't need a leap62 or any other bigger leaps.

I had done some more research after I wrote this note (which was supposed
to just be a note to myself, sorry).  I guess ANSI C has some confusing
text in it (viz.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.protocols.time.ntp/HvZBLs413ng)
and this confusion has been hard to stamp out.

> 
> > Section 4
> > 
> > (I guess you don't need to talk about sensitive ro nodes when all the nodes
> > are under the sensitive rw nodes already mentioned.)
> > 
> [YJ] No, we don't talk about any read-only nodes in Section 4.


Thanks,

Benjamin

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