I certainly respect the right for a "long chew"... ... ... Once you have a chance to swallow, feel free to email to kick around a few tentative first steps. I will get a bit of an R&D budget allocated.
Cheers, Hans On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 6:29:22 PM UTC-5 [email protected] wrote: > G'day Hans, > > That sounds wickedly interesting, but way beyond the scope of my project, > I think. I reserve the right for a long chew, or long bout of paralysis by > analysis. > > What I'm building is the kind of thing that would spit out DDL (i.e. the > create statements for tables, indexes, views, foreign/primary/etc. > constraints), the kind of stuff to create a database. Not the kind of > stuff for interacting with a database via SQL (select, insert, update, > delete). > > Using TiddlyWiki to access a database has been simmering in the far > recesses of my mind, but that is a complicated affair, a whole bunch of > technical skills I don't have at all. > > However, if we are talking get TiddlyWiki to generate SQL statements that > can be cut and pasted into other software that accesses a database, that > could be a fun project, although likely one for a year or two down the > road. If TiddlyWiki can spit out DDL, it can equally spit out SQL. > > So many possible projects, so few hours in a day. Other projects I've > been tossing around in my head: a TiddlyWiki Report builder (kind of like > Crystal Reports?), and a TiddlyWiki Forms Designer. > > On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 4:55:37 PM UTC-4 [email protected] wrote: > >> cj.v: >> >> I've been watching your ideas with considerable interest since I have >> access to a LOT of realEstate/property data and I am surrounded by a large >> group of SQL experts. (For my part, it's been at least 20 years since I >> used SQL and, now, I would/should be blocked from doing so again by the >> techs I work with). >> >> I cannot help but wonder is there is enough synergy that we might be able >> to propose/build a bit of a prototype of how TW and SQL might interact >> (even if only at the Design stage). I'd be content to explore this further >> using email either at [email protected] (Professional use - heavily spam >> filtered, so I might need to punch a hole for you) or [email protected] >> (Personal use). >> >> Cheers, >> Hans >> >> On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 10:26:56 AM UTC-5 [email protected] >> wrote: >> >>> For sure, Stan. I've got to iron out some kinks, and figure out how a >>> user could upgrade from one version of Tifoist to the next (i.e. never need >>> to re-enter or fix anything in an upgrade.) >>> >>> Once I can get the basic functionality working, I will throw myself into >>> figuring out how to build a Tifoist plugin. >>> >>> I'm thinking, very much on the fly: >>> >>> - Testing of basic functionality first. Iron kinks. >>> - Well, once I finish "basic functionality", (the scope is a >>> moving target right now.) >>> - Setup Tifoist as a plugin, then test that and iron out kinks. >>> - Then work on Tifoist upgrading. Test and iron out kinks. >>> - At some point, test TiddlyWiki upgrade of a TiddlyWiki with >>> Tifoist plugin. >>> - At some point, and in logical chunks, add more functionality, >>> while making sure none of the above get broken. >>> >>> >>> I've spent *the last few days hyperfocused on GUI design* (i.e. making >>> the TiddlyWiki look like an an application for domain "modeling" and >>> database engineering, maybe even software engineering). >>> >>> Also a little sidetracked by naming paralysis by analysis. >>> >>> Anyhoo, latest incarnation for your viewing pleasure and scrutinizing: >>> Tifoist-TW5 >>> Prototype 2 >>> <https://tifoist.neocities.org/CJ_TIFOIST_BIS_PROTOTYPE_V2.html> >>> (continuing >>> to model a domain I know well: the business domain of New Brunswick's >>> Buildings Group, related information about 2/3rds of the way down this >>> page >>> <https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/contacts/dept_renderer.149.1699.html#mandates> >>> .) >>> >>> On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 8:50:23 AM UTC-4 [email protected] >>> wrote: >>> >>>> This looks really nice, Charlie. Let me know when you are ready for >>>> some beta testing. I have a couple of nice book projects where I could >>>> use >>>> Tifoist. >>>> Stan >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 10:05:14 PM UTC-5 [email protected] >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> "ORM-ish à la TiddlyWiki" is now "*The Tifoist Project*" >>>>> >>>>> - *T*ifoist *I*s a *F*act-*O*riented *I*nformation-*S* >>>>> emanticization *T*ool >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The previous work I now call "prototype 1." >>>>> >>>>> I am now labouring on "prototype 2", involving some GUI design and >>>>> overhauling/refactoring what I did in prototype 1. Much of what I did in >>>>> prototype 1 is now broken in prototype 2. >>>>> >>>>> Much work to do before prototype 2 can be released into the wild for >>>>> some scrutiny. For now, I share a few screenshots (attached). >>>>> >>>>> Cheers ! >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 4:49:31 PM UTC-4 Charlie Veniot wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Project TiddlyWiki: ORM-ish à la TiddlyWiki >>>>>> <https://intertwingularityslicendice.neocities.org/CJ_ORM.html> >>>>>> >>>>>> *BTW: My announcement for this project has turned into an awesome >>>>>> thread of discussion. Please check out Using TiddlyWiki for fact-based >>>>>> information modelling and database engineering ??? >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/57_eiPadjCo> for some >>>>>> ridiculously excellent buffet of food for thought about, um, thought >>>>>> (cognitive processing). Things like (I can't do it all justice):* >>>>>> >>>>>> - *managing complexity* >>>>>> - *information/knowledge design/navigation* >>>>>> - *PhD-related stuff about context and keeping stuff >>>>>> understandable* >>>>>> - *in short: A LOT OF WOW GOODNESS !!!* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Latest Updates* >>>>>> *(The following pretty much sums up changes/additions since November >>>>>> 23rd.)* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Text Rotation Testing* >>>>>> >>>>>> - I took a little side trip trying to figure out a generic >>>>>> mechanism from creating tables like in the "Entity Relationship >>>>>> Matrix" >>>>>> tiddler. Although I gave up after a few hours (much too big and >>>>>> messy of a >>>>>> job), I left the following two tiddlers in the TiddlyWiki in case I >>>>>> ever >>>>>> want to try again: "Research Macros" and "Text Rotation Tester" >>>>>> >>>>>> *Coded Form of Facts* >>>>>> >>>>>> - I last had coded form of facts setup as one field for each >>>>>> fact, containing the entire coding line (for example: coded field = >>>>>> "BUILDING 1:1 BLDG_NAME"). >>>>>> - That was making all of my scripting more complicated (having to >>>>>> split that coded field into the three parts: BUILDING, 1:1, and >>>>>> BLDG_NAME >>>>>> for whatever kind of processing.) MORE IMPORTANTLY: that was making >>>>>> it >>>>>> much more difficult for me to setup "data entry" of a fact's coded >>>>>> form via >>>>>> select widgets. >>>>>> - Now, a fact's coded form is split into three fields: c1, c2, >>>>>> and c3. (for example: c1 field = "BUILDING", c2 field = "1:1", and >>>>>> c3 >>>>>> field = "BLDG_NAME".) >>>>>> - This change from one field to three required some rejigging of >>>>>> various tiddlers, including (among others): "Entity Relationship >>>>>> Matrix", >>>>>> "oEs" (a transclusion template to generate conceptual representations >>>>>> of >>>>>> entities; see "BLDG_SPACE_UNIT" tiddler for an example) >>>>>> >>>>>> *Early start (experimentation) of widgets for data entry* >>>>>> >>>>>> - Using "select widgets" to help with creating coded form of >>>>>> facts. I'm very new to the use of widgets for this purpose, so this >>>>>> will >>>>>> take me a while to get right. For a starting example, see the "A >>>>>> Building >>>>>> has exactly one Name / A Name is unique to a Building" fact >>>>>> >>>>>> *Entity Relationship Matrix tiddler* >>>>>> >>>>>> - For the slanted column titles, I removed the little links for >>>>>> the related tiddlers, because the slanting of titles often causes the >>>>>> tiddler links to not be clickable (they wind up at the bottom of >>>>>> "z-order", >>>>>> and it just isn't a fun thing to try and fix at the moment.) >>>>>> - Pure CSS for tooltips on the check marks is wonky sometimes >>>>>> because of tooltip positioning (which can only be auto-adjusted >>>>>> nicely to >>>>>> show the tooltip, in a guaranteed viewable spot, with javascript.) >>>>>> That is >>>>>> not a fun thing to try and fix at the moment. >>>>>> - Scrolling the table columns towards the left: modified so that >>>>>> when columns get slid over to the left, the cells don't show on top >>>>>> of the >>>>>> row headers on the far left (that remain in fixed position.) >>>>>> - I haven't figured out how to do the same for column headers, >>>>>> but I'm on the fence: not sure I want to hide column headers when >>>>>> columns >>>>>> are scrolled to the left. >>>>>> >>>>>> *Primary Keys for entities* >>>>>> >>>>>> - I was setting up all primary keys as "value_type" tiddlers, but >>>>>> I've modified so that primary keys are now specified as a simple >>>>>> field on >>>>>> each related entity tiddler. >>>>>> - Seeing as I'm a big believer in using Sequence Numbers (as per >>>>>> Oracle Database products; whatever is equivalent in other database >>>>>> products), it doesn't make much sense for each primary key having a >>>>>> dedicated tiddler. >>>>>> - Instead, every entity has a sequence number name specified >>>>>> in a field, and each sequence number follows the exact same >>>>>> standard (data >>>>>> type, max length .... all of which are currently hard-coded in >>>>>> scripts; I >>>>>> plan to move those "standard sequence number details" in a data >>>>>> tiddler). >>>>>> - BTW: Related oEs template tiddler (for conceptualisation of >>>>>> entities) modified accordingly. >>>>>> >>>>>> *Conceptualisation of Entities* >>>>>> >>>>>> - For each attribute, the table now shows the related fact in a >>>>>> new column on the far right side. (Just nice extra information about >>>>>> each >>>>>> attribute). >>>>>> - TODO: setup some mechanism to specify an order for the >>>>>> attributes (likely up/down buttons with saving position in related >>>>>> fact >>>>>> tiddlers; still thinking about it.) >>>>>> >>>>>> *Task Tracking* >>>>>> >>>>>> - Renamed "Facts - Coded Form Pending" to "Facts - Incomplete >>>>>> Coded Form". >>>>>> - Got rid of "Entities/Attributes Pending Creation" tracking >>>>>> because "Facts - Incomplete Coded Form" handles that. >>>>>> - Added "Entities - Incomplete Primary Key" tracking. >>>>>> >>>>>> *Entity "... to Many" relationships with value types or with other >>>>>> entities* >>>>>> *(getting into some heavy-ish relational database design stuff here >>>>>> ...)* >>>>>> >>>>>> - In simple "... to 1" relationships, this would translate into >>>>>> one table for the one entity (for an entity relationship to a value >>>>>> type), >>>>>> or a table each for the two entities (for an entity relationship to >>>>>> an >>>>>> entity). Easy peasy. >>>>>> - However, for a case of "... to many", that introduces an >>>>>> additional table for both scenarios (1. relationship to many value >>>>>> type >>>>>> instances 2. relationship to many entity instances.) >>>>>> - That's something I need to ponder on: i.e. how to handle >>>>>> writing facts, coding those facts, and conceptualisation entities >>>>>> (i.e. the >>>>>> related scripts) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/3fd7d5c0-eba1-4bfa-9d17-88beab5e2602n%40googlegroups.com.
