Hi R2 and Tones I saw my name in the post. So I wanted to reply!
1. While there are many other developers/contributors who *deserve to be named* here, I absolutely name Saq Imtiaz. His talent and great contributions to Tiddlywiki core and community tools is not deniable. 2. I have never considered myself as a Tiddlywiki developer/contributor, as I had no or little contribution (I do not know any JS), but I tried to solve my own problems by asking many questions here in the group or GitHub and if I solved the problem I shared it with enough documentation lets others use it be able further develop it (my career is like this! at university we publish free of charge what we find!)! I asked to star some projects because I wanted to know if there is any interest to maintain it (Shiraz has the highest stars = 38 which you can consider as nill!) 3. I definitely support the idea to donate to Tiddlywiki itself and developers/contributors! and like Google Summer Code, I propose Tiddlywiki Summer Code to fund some ideas/projects (the fund can be provided as community donation, ...) Best wishes Mohammad On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 11:36 AM R² <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Tones, > > Thanks for raising this major question. As most non-developers, despite > being an active user, I am mostly a passive bystander as far as the > community is concerned. I am of course highly aware of how much I rely on > developers such as yourself for my favourite tools and feel strongly about > finding ways to contribute towards making sure TiddlyWiki can continue to > thrive. > > I've been thinking about this on and off since Soren released his > incredible Grok Tiddlywiki in particular, as Soren has recently released > two projects that really resonate with me and has considerably empowered me > in my tinkering. I finalized a one-off donation this morning after ticking > off another chapter of Grok TW, but the issue is of course that supporting > only one developer/documenter, especially as a one-off, feels like an easy > cop out, and ideally this would have to be balanced out by something that > makes sure that the key developers are also properly taken into account and > contributes to some sort of long-term stability and predictability for > developers. > > Now, who are the key developers? Users like me cannot possibly be expected > to be discerning in that matter when deciding how and where to direct their > donation. Your top of mind seems to be Jeremy, Mario and Eric, as well as > yourself to some extent I imagine. Let me tell me about mine. I'd mention > Jeremy, Dave Gifford and Mohammed, but simply because those are names that > stuck to my mind while lurking around the forum for my own intents and > purposes. I would have recognized your icon, though I'd probably have > associated it to Dave. There's also a guy with a icon of a wolf that I find > pretty neat and some interesting mannerisms, and another one with a flat > comics face that seems to be a real regular but I couldn't remember his > name without checking. I never really went on the Github page except to > star the project. In reality, I have no precise idea who's contributing > most and I have a feeling many potential donors wouldn't either. What I > have is an uninformed, biased vision of someone who couldn't possibly > intelligently support an individual developer other than based on external > wow factor alone or random mental shortcuts. > > There are probably many more developers out there, with very different > personal situations. Some would benefit greatly from more money at a > personal level, while others have high paying jobs and would view this as > beer or coffee money. Some, including yourself would actually be able to > commit more time to Tiddlywiki or avoid dropping out by having more funds > go their way, and these are not necessarily the same as the former group, > and perhaps even developers that are completely out of the picture at > present. Beyond this counterfactual, there's also the question of the "bang > for the buck": a dollar in Iran has more purchasing power that in the US... > So many questions that personally have led me to a situation of analysis > paralysis regarding Tiddlywiki and yet, here I am, also a long-term monthly > donator to Linux Mint. Mint provided me with an easy "set and forget" > mechanism to support the community, presenting me with a nice, trustworthy > black box to address my money to. It's easy to view this support through > the SaaS lens too. I currently pay $5 a month, an amount I decided based > both on my modest means and on what Microsoft probably managed to squeeze > out of me on average when I was a Windows user. I also pay for my Internet > access (a share of €18/2=€9 per month), my phone bill (€5*2=€10 for my two > lines), an Internet server and domain names, and pay around €120 per year > for other software (mostly as donations these days). Supporting my PIM > shouldn't be any different, and I indeed used to pay for Evernote a few > years ago for a much inferior product with no authentic sense of purpose. > My absolute ideal solution as a user would be to have the same kind of > support mechanism for TiddlyWiki, no accountability needed, just knowing > the core developers have found some sort of agreement and viable form of > governance would be enough as far as I'm concerned and I'd pay $10/month in > my current situation, plus $50–100 per year on an ad hoc basis. > > On top of that, I'd love to have clear opportunities for one-off > donations, either ex-post or for earlier releases. A nice feature would be > to have make this expense-friendly because many of us can file reasonable > outside expenses for such things, either as independents or employees. Your > prize pool idea is interesting, but I guess we wouldn't want, say, three > developers to waste their time carrying out the same kind of work in triple > to claim a given prize given how few you are. From a individual standpoint, > I think the most promising proposal would therefore be "a list of tools you > can choose to sponsor for earlier release through donations which also act > as an upvote" as I find the core extremely polished for my own needs and > I'd of course love to cast a vote in favour of new and shiny things that I > could get to use. Your last idea, offering a private method to commission > work is also of course something to consider of course. It seems there's no > "Tiddlywiki developer for hire" page on tiddlywiki.com, which seems like > a missed opportunity. > > Hope this helps. > > Best, > R² > Le jeudi 20 mai 2021 à 02:22:43 UTC+2, TW Tones a écrit : > >> Folks, >> >> A lot of contributors here are deserving of reward for their efforts. As >> a result I do make one off or continuing patreon donations to a few in our >> community. >> >> The discussion of money can be difficult but I would like to hear your >> considered thoughts. >> >> In my own circumstances I am currently unemployed, If I take a full time >> job, I will have far less time for TiddlyWiki, although I hope to use it in >> my job. >> >> As you may be aware I already try and contribute a lot to the community >> and as a result of developing super user or designer skills I have >> designed many tools and features for tiddlywiki. Basically I have a library >> of many dozens of tools, however I have not being able to justify the time >> to polish and publish them. Many of my tools are designed to fill gaps that >> arise, as I develop larger tiddlywiki solutions, mostly for my self. >> >> What I would like your feedback on both as users and developers is the >> possibility of some of us (especially myself) being able to attract some >> sponsorship to get the job done. Here are my thoughts; >> >> - Provide a patreon or similar channel for regular donations to >> sponsor my time producing such open source solutions. >> - Provide a requests channel, so people can submit a request for a >> solution. >> - Provide a list of tools you can choose to sponsor for earlier >> release through donations which also act as an upvote. >> - Finally offer a private method to commission work. >> >> Given my belief in Open source I would continue to contribute much for >> free, especially contributions to the forums. Any work funded by >> sponsorship or donations would be made freely available to the community. >> Only specific and private commissions may not, although components may be. >> >> *Some possible issues* >> One issue for me is even if people value such a service to request or >> bring forward particular solutions, ultimately I will still need to depend >> on the generosity of others when I need help in the forums. I do still have >> a few areas of weakness. Whilst I can see circumstances when donations may >> permit me to commission others I don't expect this would be so common, >> unless my earnings are sufficient to cover this. Perhaps I can grant >> contributors credit in my own "shop" for thanks. >> >> Equity for people such as Jeremy and other developers needs to be >> addressed. Can we find a way to encourage more contributions to those such >> as Jeremy, Mario and Eric without the community becoming an "only if funded >> model". Of course if people are in a position to give their time freely we >> want to encourage this to continue. >> >> If I am going to do this I need to start in a hurry, so I do not want to >> add anything unnecessary to the "critical path" but perhaps we could have a >> shared "shop". >> >> Yours with trepidation and sincerity. >> Tones >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/ce830c1c-db5c-488d-91e2-d1d1c7ccf864n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/ce830c1c-db5c-488d-91e2-d1d1c7ccf864n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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