Hello all, ' hope everyone is having a good day.
Although much of this thread goes over my head, I am glad that Jeremy is again working on Tiddliwiki. As a regular Joe, however, I would like to state that if indeed one were to go with a syntax change I would concur with Martin above. I would definitely be able to adapt to the Creole syntax for the same reason he stated...it's very similar to Tiddlywiki. I do have a question: * If indeed this were to be the case, can one adapt Creole yet keep some syntax that would be "unique" to Tiddlywiki without the use of plugins or converters? * Or would that be too much work for development? Just trying to educate myself here. This probably should be discussion for another thread. I thought I'd just throw the question out there while it's still fresh in my mind. Thanks all, Julio On Dec 15, 6:15 am, Martin Budden <[email protected]> wrote: > I concur with HansBKK that you should adopt a standard wiki markup for > TW 5. I differ from in that I think you should adopt WikiCreole see: > > http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0 > andhttp://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/CreoleAdditions > > The main reason for this recommendation is the WikiCreole markup is > *very* similar to TW markup. The main differences being the handling > of bold, headings and links. WikiCreole even recommends using double > angle brackets for plugins. > > Since TW 5 is going to break compatibility, then I think it should > also take the opportunity to move to a standard wiki format. I know > text compatibility and code compatibility are different things, but > nevertheless I believe this is the correct way forward. > > Note TW 5 could support standard TW wikiformat using a plugin, and > also could provide a converter so that people can easily move their > text from TW format to WikiCreole format. Since the formats are so > similar, conversion would be fairly straightforward. > > Martin > > On 15 December 2011 09:22, Jeremy Ruston <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> I've been doing a lot of research and playing around in the "tools > >> that transform markup" space recently, and would **implore** you to > >> consider choosing one of the more mainstream cross-platform syntaxes > >> rather than re-implementing a proprietary TWmarkup, even if it may be > >> "based on" one of them. > > > The primary constraint I am embracing is to retain compatibility as > > far as possible with existing TiddlyWIki markup. I think that that > > rules out the wholesale adoption of a standard format - for instance, > > TiddlyWiki gets [[pretty|links]] the wrong way round from most wikis. > > > To get around the limitations imposed by that constraint, we have the > > idea of pluggable parsers and renderers, so that it is possible to > > adopt other formats, and intermingle them and so on. If you can find a > > JavaScript parser for it, then hopefully you'll be able to use it. > > >> Markdown is a popular choice, lots of active development in the > >> Pandocs project - their "extensions" may be a bit proprietary, but > >> since the focus of the whole project is interoperability, it's for a > >> good cause. > > > Adopting MarkDown in its entirety is a bit troublesome from my > > perspective; it's not very formally defined, and the only > > implementations that I've seen are even hairier balls of regexps than > > the old TiddlyWIki wikifier. It also lacks what I'd have thought of as > > basic features, like tables, arguing that users should write HTML tags > > for them. > > >> Other candidates are txt2tags and reST/Sphinx, with the former having > >> the edge in a huge number of output formats currently supported. Both > >> of these are implemented in Python, while Pandocs is Haskell, if that > >> means anything. > > > I need JavaScript code, obviously. There may be bits and pieces worth > > taking from those projects, but a brief glance shows that they take in > > concerns that don't entirely match TiddlyWiki, so I don't see a way to > > wholesale adopt those syntaxes. > > >> IMO the key is to **not** pick and choose bits and pieces, but to take > >> on an entire **syntax spec as a whole**. > > > I only see that as feasible if there was a spec out there that was (a) > > compatible with TiddlyWiki and (b) did everything that TiddlyWiki > > needs and (c) didn't include lots of features that aren't relevant for > > TiddlyWiki and (d) had usable JavaScript code. > > >> This would enable plugging TW into a standardized toolchain so that it > >> can be either a "publishing and distribution target", along with say > >> EPUB, AsciiDoc and HTMLhelp, or perhaps even the location where the > >> "master source" text is edited, to then be able to output and > >> transform to such formats. NB I consider TW's forte to be the former > >> rather than the latter, but something like Pandocs would give the > >> flexibility to go in either direction. > > > As I say, the ability to have pluggable parsers and renderers should > > give you the capabilities you want. For you, the native TiddlyWiki > > format might just be what gets used for the application plumbing, with > > all your content being in other formats. > > >> But please **please** don't just throw another proprietary wikiMarkup > >> syntax set into the mix, this is an historic opportunity to contribute > >> to the idea of "open data" in the larger ecosystem rather than > >> continuing to view tiddlers as an isolated silo needing custom coding > >> to extract inline markup semantics. > > > I'm not planning to throw another proprietary wiki markup into the > > mix. I'm planning to improve TiddlyWiki's existing markup so that it > > isn't broken with respect to paragraphs, and to introduce some > > alternative syntaxes for some simple formatting. > > >> Thanks in advance for at least considering these ideas. . . > > > As I say, I think the kinds of things you're interested in are enabled > > by the parsing/rendering architecture. I would very much appreciate > > feedback on the improvements to the wikitext. > > > Best wishes > > > Jeremy > > >> /rant > > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "TiddlyWiki" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected]. > >> For more options, visit this group > >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "TiddlyWiki" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. 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