This idea, @Mario's point, about reverse engineering and Steve's "off-the-cuff description" of a potential conference theme (see Missing Tiddler below) sparked a thought.
Many of the tasks I use TW for is to convert chunks of text into hypertext. I am at a curious stage with a text, there are various activities I find myself performing: 1) I am reverse engineering text a produced as a hypertext which I then removed all hypertext links to get the text into Harvard referencing format. 2) I find some text composed in an email and cut and pasted into my TW. It contains some references which don't exist in my TW.... The world of the Day Job consists of writing email, word docs and reading pdfs -- this is pretty much a given for many people. TW is an adaptable hypertext tool and as such brings all the benefits the hypertext pioneers write about. Converting texts (with combersome references, footnotes, endnotes etc) to hypertext is part of a wider ambition to make reading complex interconnected texts less of a burden on the mind. The conventions associated with referencing texts produces a cognitive overhead for the reader. Hypertext removes the need for pointing, establishing context and referencing, TW is a tool which helps the thinker manage these for him / her self ------- Missing Tiddler ----- Draft conference theme "Tiddlywiki can be envisioned and described within the broad vison of "hypertext" imagined by pioneers Vannevar Bush, Ted Nelson and Doug Englebart.* This conference will bring together users and developers within the Tiddlywiki ecosystem to consider, demonstrate and document the relationship between the Bush/Nelson/Englebart vision, and the Tiddlywiki (TW5) community's implementation, practices and techniques." [1] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/e_zXAle8yRw/iV7Q7tlmAwAJ --------- On 2 August 2015 at 13:02, Alex Hough <[email protected]> wrote: > @JayFresh makes a good point > > "It's an example of allowing free-text to be the basic unit of entry, > with the structure coming later and broadly though automated means. Sadly > this is an insight most, if not all, productivity tools have failed to > grasp - instead they make the unit the "task" which is a crazy constraint > and assumption about how people think." > > I think this is a great feature. A use case arose for me: > > I created a missing tiddler, i copied and pasted the title of the tiddler > into the search box. The search returns a tiddler -- a copy of an email: it > is long and linear, structured in paragraphs. One of the paragraphs was > relevant to my missing tiddler. Manually I'll create a new tiddler > containing an edited version of the useful paragraph with links to the > parent and the missing. > > > Alex > > On 2 August 2015 at 11:27, Jeremy Ruston <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Thanks for the feedback everyone. >> >> > Hi, even if the idea is good (please think of adding a "select >> all/none" option in the import process) there are hundreds of opened issues >> (some since 2013!) that needs your attention way more than this don't you >> think? >> >> The reason I'm working on this now is because I need it for my day job -- >> bear in mind that nobody pays me to work on TiddlyWiki :) >> >> It might be worth exploring your thoughts about the state of the TW5 >> issues list in a new thread. For me, I certainly don't see it as my todo >> list. >> >> >It was surprising to see how the tiddler in edit mode also appears in >> the assembled "document" - I'm not sure this is intentional... but it is >> actually really good! I would prefer editing it at that local place before >> having it appear separately at some other place. But with the option to >> edit it separately (Ctrl+click?) But editing it in-doc would of course >> require some way to access that tiddlers toolbar via the assembled doc, at >> that point. Could there perhaps be a toolbar appearing on-hover, in doc, >> for the relevant tiddler? Maybe with some kind of marking to show which >> exact section of the assembled doc it concerns, such as a differently >> colored background when hovering or a frame? I have some further thoughts >> if this at all sounds interesting. >> >> The idea is indeed to have in-place editing of content. There are several >> steps: >> >> * Support for edit mode, which makes the tiddler toolbars appear >> * Support for inserting new tiddlers under existing ones >> * Drag and drop to reorder items >> >> The current state of affairs is, as you've discovered, that switching a >> tiddler into edit mode will display the draft within the document. >> >> > Is there a white paper, that allows us to see the concept, that you >> implemented, without the need of reverse engineering? >> >> It's pretty basic, if you understand the existing table of contents >> mechanism. It's based on child entries being tagged by their parent title. >> >> > There is an issue. If I import the sliced tiddlers, they don't show up >> in the recent tab. So after closing the import tiddler, it is impossible to >> open the sliced tiddlers. >> >> I'll fix that. >> >> > 1) What happens I change the title of a sliced tiddler. Does the >> structure fall apart? >> >> My next plan is to support renaming tiddlers properly by changing tag and >> list references to the tiddler (as per Danielo's plugin). >> >> > 2) Are the auto created tiddlers still usable for tools like >> TiddlyMap, in a sane way? >> >> Hopefully. The idea is that by reusing the TOC structure it should fit >> well with existing tools. >> >> > 3) What if I need to translate the content of individual tiddlers. Do I >> need to recreate the structure, or can I use the existing one? Especially >> the heading tiddlers. >> >> The plan is for each tiddler to have a language cascade, so that for >> example it will display de-AT content, falling back to de-DE and then en-GB >> >> > 4) Is there a way to undo the slicing? >> >> The slicing is non-destructive, in that the tiddler you slice up is >> unchanged. Currently it will overwrite existing tiddlers if the titles of >> the extracted tiddler clash. >> >> > 5) How can I export one eg heading with all its content, without >> forgetting some content tiddlers? >> >> When we support dragging multiple tiddlers in one go we should be able to >> support a drag handle that says "drag this tiddler and all dependents". >> >> Alternatively, you can export the rendered version of the tiddler, which >> will include the transclusions. >> >> > I'd label this plugin as "highly experimental", since it completely >> changes the structure of a tiddlywiki and there is no undo atm. ... >> >> I'll clarify the labelling to indicate that it is experimental and >> subject to change, but I'm unsure what you mean by changing the structure >> of a TW. As I said above, the slicing operation is non-destructive. >> >> > 1) I think slicing down to the paragraph level might be too far. It >> adds a lot of autogenerated cruft in the TOCs. There may be some need to go >> down to this level but I would make the delimiter for levels beyond just >> headings configurable/regexp-able. In the eCFR example above. It would be >> useful to go down to the paragraph denoted with a lowercase letter in >> braces and the subparagraph denoted by a number ... end even >> sub-subparagraph denoted by lower case roman numerals ... but I don't know >> what a good title for the paragraphs would be other than their typical >> legal reference (i.e. ยง###.## (a)(1)(i)). I have not tackled splitting >> thing up to that level manually mainly due to the work it would entail and >> the difficulty in piecing together a tiddler name that won't be error-prone. >> >> Yes, I think the tiddler-per-paragraph approach is fairly extreme. I'd >> like to support other options through configuration options. >> >> I'd also like to support numbered headings properly. >> >> > 2) In the eCFR example, there are a lot of annoying "back to top" links >> that I have to manually remove. It would be nice if some >> configurable/regexp text could be excluded from the slicing import. >> >> That would be useful. >> >> Best wishes >> >> Jeremy. >> >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 10:17 AM, PMario <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi Jeremy, >>> >>> Interesting approach. >>> >>> Is there a white paper, that allows us to see the concept, that you >>> implemented, without the need of reverse engineering? >>> >>> There is an *issue*. If I import the sliced tiddlers, they don't show >>> up in the recent tab. So after closing the import tiddler, it is >>> impossible to open the sliced tiddlers. >>> >>> There are some questions, for me that come up immediately. >>> >>> 1) What happens I change the title of a sliced tiddler. Does the >>> structure fall apart? >>> 2) Are the auto created tiddlers still usable for tools like TiddlyMap, >>> in a sane way? >>> 3) What if I need to translate the content of individual tiddlers. Do I >>> need to recreate the structure, or can I use the existing one? Especially >>> the heading tiddlers. >>> >>> I have a vague idea, how it works, so it would be useful to see the >>> tiddlers in the recent tab. >>> I think, the document abstraction doesn't go far enough for translation >>> atm but I'm not sure about this. >>> >>> 4) Is there a way to undo the slicing? >>> 5) How can I export one eg heading with all its content, without >>> forgetting some content tiddlers? >>> >>> --------------- >>> >>> Just a remark. >>> >>> I'd label this plugin as "highly experimental", since it completely >>> changes the structure of a tiddlywiki and there is no undo atm. ... >>> >>> I did read the highly enthusiastic comments, which is great. >>> So testing and feedback is good but I'd not recommend to use it with >>> production TWs yet. Because it removes the possibility for Jeremy to make >>> breaking changes to the plugin, without causing a lot of pain. >>> >>> I personally would like to get the "best possible functionality" and not >>> a plugin the halve backed and can't be changed anymore, because it needs to >>> be backwards compatible to a beta version. >>> >>> have fun! >>> mario >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Jeremy Ruston >> mailto:[email protected] >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TiddlyWiki" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/CAPKKYJbE8ii9UhT8nX_-YwgkW7Rvu0vnP9Y0LwVOdfd5vLCMmQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/CAPKKYJbE8ii9UhT8nX_-YwgkW7Rvu0vnP9Y0LwVOdfd5vLCMmQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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