On Thursday, October 5, 2017 at 1:34:02 PM UTC-5, Mat wrote:
>
> I shouldn't engage in yet another topic without having cleared up other
> discussions I'm involved in...
>
> ...but this little bit of serendipity is just too darn interesting to
> resist sharing:
>
> Could a tiddler ID really be a filter? ...and the tiddler body display the
> text from all those filtered tiddlers!
>
> This means a tiddler is either an encapsulated list-filter-transclusion of
> other tiddlers or it is a "leaf" tiddler.
>
>
Wow. I mean WOW! When I read that, paused, read it again (*he didn't
REALLY say that, did he?*) I was truly gobsmacked.
OF. COURSE.
That's... that's... well, meta-dogfooding? It makes so much sense!
>
> The idea addresses both encapsulation and presentation. It expands the
> concept of tiddlers but is still true to tiddler philosophy.
>
Actually, (apart from the obvious syntactic differences) it's more like
LISP philosophy in many ways...
> The resulting unit is exactly the smallest meaningful unit of information
> - for the current situation!
>
You're using a loaded term there "situation" -- by which, I think you mean,
"at the point at which a rendering needs to be made". Or did I
misunderstand?
>
> This *filter string* is unique, i.e can serve as an ID.
>
>
yep.
> The simplest filter string would, just like now, constitute a tiddler
> title.
>
>
ok.
> Complex tiddlers can be included in yet other complex tiddlers by means of
> the tiddler title which merely serves as a label for the filter (more on
> "labels" further down).
>
> Currently, presenting *narrative text *in TW is a rather manual process
> involving either explicit authoring of transclusion commands or listwidgets
> with such inside. Or to make some special viewtemplate do the listing. -
> Or, view the *story river* to constitute the narrative, in which case you
> deal with a rather ephemeral ephemeral narrative that the reader (not you)
> controls (i.e closing of tiddlers). A the story river is of course visually
> chunked up in tiddlers.
>
> *The OP here would still allow for all of this. It would be a superset to
> it.*
>
>
Yes. Got it. But in addition, you're *moving* some of the means to
construct some of the parts into the title field (instead of always having
to do that construction in the text field "somewhere"). Right?
> If you want the minimal chunk of info, as we currently view a tiddler,
> you've got it. But when 'the minimal' for your situation requires a complex
> information, then it would be superior if TW "natively" can present this
> '*situational
> *minimal'.
>
>
The tiddler title is run as a filter, it's run result is "passed on" --
repeat until only leaf node(s) remain. Right?
>
> Links
>
> In current TW, the general syntax for a link is of course
>
> [[label|tiddler title]] with special cases [[tiddler title]] or
> TiddlerTitle
>
>
> For the OP, imaginable general syntax forms might instead be:
>
> [[label|filter]] ...example [[students|tag[student]]]
>
> [label[filter]] ...example [students[tag[student]]]
>
> [label|filter] ...example [students|tag[student]]
>
> ...and I think the special cases without labels would be easy to fit into
> these.
>
> So clicking such a link, opens *one tiddler showing the content from all
> the filter output tiddlers*. If the filter yields no output then you get
> the "missing tiddler" template.
>
I imagine that could get annoying if offered a missing tiddler for a
complex, unwieldy filter. But it would at least follow the "standard"
behavior, I guess.
> But if there is *any *output tiddler, then this content is seen.
>
>
Just like macros and templates work right now -- output does not reflect
1-1 with input. That's fine.
> This display can be temporary, just like common generated lists. It makes
> no difference for the viewer if the tiddler is stored or temporarily or
> stored. This means links to not-yet-generated tiddlers should probably
> appear like normal tiddlers unless, perhaps, the filter output is empty.
>
>
Implementation detail.
>
> Tiddlers
>
> What is the title of a tiddler, once it is opened? - The label.
>
> And the filter string could be stored in the tiddler itself or maybe (for
> faster systemic access?) in some global directory.
>
>
Not sure about that. Could become slow(er). Certainly sounds bad for
scaling.
> When the tiddler is to be used inside some other filter,
>
i.e. when it is supplied as part of a rendering process...
> the label is used and parsed(?) into the filter string it represents.
>
> This, still, means that labels - i.e tiddler titles - must be unique, and
> they can be overwritten , just like today.
>
>
yep
> The simplest filter is an empty filer, i.e only a label. Just like today.
>
Well, actually, I see that as a filter that results in itself - i.e.
[[mytitle]]
> BTW, this would mean the tiddler is a "leaf tiddler" as it doesn't display
> any other tiddlers content.
>
>
yep.
> What is the content of a non-leaf tiddler, in edit mode? Well, the
> equivalent transclusion of the filtered tiddlers presented in edit mode.
> (I've actually dabbled with this in our current system using edittext
> widgets and it is really cool, but the idea here is to have it be native
> functionality.)
>
>
That scares me. Are you saying the UX would be the current TW UI would
open all the *production* for editing? I hope you mean it opens the
*constituent
parts* for editing.
This would
>
> - make TW more *suitable* for narrative applications like creating
> documents or "multi page things". Currently, TW is a kind of "digital
> post-it note manager". The OP would widen TW to also be a kind of document
> manager.
>
> Agreed 100%. Getting round that is time consuming, atm.
>
> -
> - lower the threshold to use TW: An absolute noob can create a
> "document" by using the filter "part1 part2 part3" and three days later
> "[tag[doc]sort[]]", whereas <$list filter=... {{!!title}}..." is probably
> not noob stuff at all.
>
> +1
>
> -
> - ...and, related, TW would be more usable as a static site generator
> - ...also related; extremely simple bundling and drag'n dropping of
> multiple tiddlers, i.e you just drag the tiddler... bundling won't even be
> a concept as it's automatic. And it doesn't even have to be an existing
> tiddler but improvised by just creating a link (i.e a filter) as described
> above.
>
>
+1
>
> Thoughts?
>
> <:-)
>
Pretty awesome Mat. Really.
Coda
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