Hi Tony

Good stuff!

The fundamental issue that would prevent most of those applications working 
today is that innerwikis are volatile: if the tiddler containing an innerwiki 
gets actively refreshed then the innerwiki will be deleted and recreated. I 
think that the only way to get around that would be to keep the innerwiki 
iframes in a separate part of the DOM that isn't subject to the refresh process 
-- that's how the plugin manager works.

A related problem is that any changes within an innerwiki are lost. There's 
nothing stopping an innerwiki saving changes, but not all savers make sense -- 
the innerwiki and the parent wiki have the same path and filename, and so would 
overwrite one another.

Interestingly, I think most of your examples could be reimagined as saving a 
customised sub-wiki, one that doesn't necessarily have all the same tiddlers as 
the parent wiki. Right now, one can only apply a filter when saving to choose 
which tiddlers should be included but one could imagine re-using the <$data> 
widget to enable additional tiddlers to be generated for inclusion in the saved 
file.

Best wishes

Jeremy



--
Jeremy Ruston
[email protected]
https://jermolene.com

> On 16 Feb 2019, at 07:32, TonyM <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Jeremy,
> 
> I have identified some scenarios for embedded iframes, even  the innerwiki 
> plugin, I will share, as suggested by you.
> 
> Please forgive me for my rampant imagination, these ideas come from real life 
> challenges.
> 
> Given, a Parent wiki, even a single file wiki can spawn an innerwiki with a 
> subset of tiddlers
> In the parent/outer wiki Accept some settings, Generate a seperate wiki based 
> on the settings, in which a user can enter their input and save it to disk. 
> Basically the parent wiki can be a TiddlyWiki factory. It can generate 
> multiple editions from the one edition and with access to the resources / 
> data of the parent, at least at creation time
> Spawn an inner wiki which is a standalone wiki containing the results of a 
> process designed in the parent wiki - in effect generating report wikis 
> perhaps for distribution into an intranet.
> The report wiki can be a light wiki, only with the results, not the tools to 
> generate the results and could allow for a chinese wall with multi-client 
> outputs.
> It could even include active plugins disabled in the parent wiki.
> Generate a TiddlyWiki as a Document/Website (full or template) in an 
> innerwiki, giving it a unique filename, serial number and other features 
> (metadata Stored in the parent wiki as well) then save/export the document. 
> The parent wiki can hold a set of templates for the required tiddlywiki 
> documents, and the document can store reference to its parent. Thus every 
> wiki built is automatically known about by the parent "generating" wiki.
> Generate "forms" in smart wikis, and allow the answers (in Serial number 
> uniquified tiddlers) to be emailed in response (Ie the parent need not be 
> writable), and imported by the owner of the parent.
> Spawn an innerwiki identical to the outer wiki (all tiddlers), install a 
> plugin to the innerwiki and test it sandboxed, from the parent. Optionally 
> migrate changes back to the wiki or save it out and replace the parent.
> Publish a parent wiki, that spawns innerwikis with generated tiddler sets, or 
> test data. Users can then replicate there "problems" and "Challenges" in a 
> defined wiki or data set, that that all users can also generate. So if I am 
> having trouble with a special toc, I can test it inside a common wiki and 
> share my broken tiddler and the named data set others can replicate.
> Questions arising
> Could we save and reopen an innerwiki injecting new content the second time, 
> or harvesting changes within the innerwiki when it was away with another user?
> Could we allow innerwikis to be saved into the server hosting the parent 
> wiki?, node, AWS or php for example. 
> As a hosted Tiddlywiki solution
> The creator could then own the generated wiki but not the parent.
> Could we generate an innerwiki with access to an authentication process, that 
> allows the current browser session to be authenticated, then exit that 
> innerwiki and continue within the now authenticated parent?
> With a view to continued innovation!
> 
> Regards
> Tony
> 
>> On Tuesday, 12 February 2019 19:04:41 UTC+11, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>> Hi Tony
>> 
>> It's good to broaden the understanding of the benefits and pitfalls of 
>> iframes. One takeaway from this thread is that using iframes is a well 
>> understood technique in the developer community, and TW already uses them in 
>> several roles (plugin library, viewing HTML tiddlers, innerwiki, 
>> Twederation).
>> 
>> We can continue to discuss exposing iframe functionality as primitives that 
>> wikitext authors can experiment with, but we'll need some clear scenarios 
>> first.
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> 
>> Jeremy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Jeremy Ruston
>> [email protected]
>> https://jermolene.com
>> 
>>> On 11 Feb 2019, at 22:59, TonyM <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jeremy,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your response.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> The "send to" may be the minimum needed as when constructing a HTML page 
>>>>> we can easily add the javascript, but if it were available as both send 
>>>>> and receive within TiddlyWiki users may also be able to use this 
>>>>> possibility? It would be understandable that it were a plugin if the 
>>>>> support is not already built in due to the plugin library.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't quite follow the question. The communication used by the plugin 
>>>> library is bidirectional, if that's what you mean.
>>> 
>>> As I understand this, the bidirectional aspect is from and to outer and an 
>>> inner wikis. 
>>> It would be helpful if we can "access"  in a widget, the  communication 
>>> used by the plugin library so a super user rather than only developer can 
>>> access this.
>>> If the content of iframe is non tiddlywiki such as a html/javascript page 
>>> we need the matching code to embed in it to also enable the communication.
>>>  
>>>>> Is the Data widget in innerwiki effectively like this?
>>>> No, the way it works is that the data widget is completely passive; it 
>>>> doesn't do anything except collect its attributes and render its children. 
>>>> Other widgets that contain those data widgets can process each one, 
>>>> extracting the attributes.
>>> 
>>> OK Thanks. 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for patiently responding to my questions that are clearly somewhat 
>>> from a place of ignorance. I am exploring the possibilities for new and 
>>> expansive applications of TiddlyWiki for which I do not necessarily have 
>>> the jargon for. We are all a little naive when moving into a new field.
>>> 
>>> Best wishes to you too, 
>>> Still in Oxford? I would love to visit some time.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> Tony
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