Approximately 2.25mm (that metric nonsense). [?]
On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, J. Forster <[email protected]> wrote: > AHA! The English system triumphs over that Metric nonsense. > > My Rolex stopped working about 20 years ago. OTOH, my $12 Timex analog > quartz still works fine.... > > I think. At least it was working when I misplaced it a year ago. Since > then, I've discovered I really don't need to know time to much better than > +/- 10 minutes. > > FWIW, > > -John > > ============== > > > > I figured someone would pounce on my post. If you think that time nuts > > can > > be competitive, try watch nuts. None of us agrees with any of the rest > of > > us, no matter what. > > > > It is true that the term ebauche, as it is used in the trade, very often > > refers to an incomplete movement. It may or may not be fitted with > > jewels, > > springs, escapment, balance wheel. The term is used loosely in the watch > > business except, of course, that each of us knows precisely how it should > > be > > used and everyone else is wrong. [?] > > > > Ebauche is used in a less technical way to refer to a movement that is > not > > built in-house but rather is purchased, more-or-less tweaked, and put > into > > a > > house case. It is sometimes (by Rolex fanbois, for example) used as a > > term > > of derision, as the use of an outsourced ebauche is considered to be less > > prestigious than building your own movements in house. I'll leave that > > debate for another day. > > > > When an ebauche is outsourced, the assembler will specify what he wants > to > > be supplied. It can be anything from the plates and pillars all the way > > up > > to a fully assembled, ready-to-run movement. The more upscale the > > assembler, the more likely they are to want to insert some of their own > > parts, do some fancy milling and engraving, etc., some to improve > > performance, some just to look sexy. The Omega Seamaster that I am > > wearing > > at this moment (a 2255.80.00) uses the ETA 2892-A2 ebauche and modifies > it > > extensively, then refers to it as either the Omega 1120 calibre or the > > 1120 > > movement. > > > > All that being said, at least Omega (won't speak for others) refers to > the > > uncased movement, when it goes to COSC for testing as an ebauche. > Whether > > they mean by that that they bought it from ETA or just that it is an > > uncased > > movement would be for them to answer. > > > > Chuck is right in pointing out that terminology should be used correctly > > which is why I wrote "ebauche et assortiments" which, in context, means > > "all > > the parts and pieces" of the movement. And that covers it adequately > > whether the ebauche, itself, comes ready-to-run or just as a handful of > > components. > > > > He quite accurately corrects my use of the term "calibre" (yeah, we fuss > > over how to spell it, too...). His definition, including both the > > measurement of the movement in lignes and the general configuration of > the > > movement such that it will fit a specific case, is right on target. It > > is, > > however, not uncommon to hear people say calibre to refer to a movement > as > > a > > whole. Omega, for example, refers in some of its literature to the > "1120 > > calibre," by which they mean the whole movement. > > > > A ligne is 1/12 of an inch, by the way. > > > > And we could go on from here but you would probably rather get back to > > filtering that Tbolt power supply. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Chuck Harris <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> I think if we are going to use terminology, we should try to use it > >> correctly. > >> > >> The term ebauche, is very similar to the term engine block. An ebauche > >> is > >> an unfinished movement. It typically has not been fitted with all of > >> the > >> jewels, balance, etc.. In Switzerland, like in Detroit, there are > >> numerous > >> companies, also known as Ebauche, that build the parts that many name > >> brand > >> manufacturers assemble into a finished unit... be it an engine, or a > >> watch. > >> > >> Just as a Volkeswagen Beetle, and a Porsche 914 use the same engine > >> block, > >> but finish it for different purposes, an ebauche movement may receive > >> quite > >> a lot of hot-rodding depending on the OEM customer. Some get their > >> plates > >> dressed up with fine gilt lettering, Damasceening, extra jewels, and > >> adjustments, > >> and others simply get stuffed into the watch case rough and unadorned. > >> > >> The term calibre, is used two ways. The first is to show the general > >> size > >> of a movement, in lignes. The second is to indicate the general layout, > >> or > >> style of a movement. Movements of the same calibre can often be > >> substituted > >> for an original movement, even though they are made, and finished, > >> differently > >> than the original. > >> > >> Companies like Rolex have traditionally done all of the manufacturing of > >> their > >> movements in house. They do not use the Ebauche market as a source for > >> any > >> of > >> their parts. Other companies, like TAG/Heuer use nothing but Ebauche > >> parts. > >> > >> Quartz movements as found in the typical Bling brands, are all ebauche. > >> > >> Mechanical watch movements have suffered greatly from the rapid > >> depression > >> of > >> the prices of sophisticated electronics, and the rapid rise of labor > >> costs. > >> > >> It was once possible for a watchmaker to spend his days fixing watches, > >> at > >> a reasonably cheap price, and still keep his wife and kids fed clothed, > >> and living in a decent home. > >> > >> But even back then, technology brought us the "Dollar Watch" that was so > >> cheap that it was never meant to be fixed. The start of the downfall of > >> the watchmaking profession. > >> > >> Today, if a watchmaker charges $140 for a 3-4 hour service job, people > >> complain > >> that it is too expensive. And yet, they would also complain if they > >> didn't > >> get > >> more than $140 for 3-4 hours of their time. > >> > >> > >> -Chuck Harris > >> > >> William H. Fite wrote: > >> > >>> That estimate is probably about right. It hasn't been quite that > >>> expensive > >>> for me but then I have a couple of Omegas; gave my Rolex to my nephew > >>> years > >>> ago. > >>> > >>> For your money, they remove the movement (or the calibre...or the > >>> ébauche > >>> et > >>> assortiments...depending on how horologically snooty you care to be. > >>> They > >>> clean it, inspect it and replace worn parts, reassemble and lubricate. > >>> They > >>> then test it for accuracy in their own lab. If it passes house > >>> standards, > >>> they will send the movement (still out of the case at this point) to > >>> the > >>> Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres where it will be tested for a > >>> number of days, in a number of positions, at a number of temperatures. > >>> Assuming it passes, they put it back into the case, which has, in the > >>> meantime, been cleaned, repaired if needed, and buffed. They then ship > >>> the > >>> watch back to you with a new warranty and a new COSC chronometer > >>> certification. > >>> > >>> Considering that the bottom end for a Rolex nowadays is on the order of > >>> $3K > >>> and even a lowly Omega Seamaster starts at about $1500, this fee does > >>> not > >>> seem excessive to me. > >>> > >>> Of course, if'n you don't care, just take it to your local Kay's. > >>> After > >>> all, every kiss begins with Kay. But understand that the kiss you get > >>> will > >>> be kissing your fine movement goodbye much before its time. > >>> > >>> But I wouldn't pay that to have a quartz watch overhauled. That is the > >>> care > >>> you give to a fine mechanical calibre, not a crystal and a battery. > >>> After > >>> all (shudder) it is quartz. Quartz belongs on the bench, not on your > >>> wrist. Some Rolex owners are ashamed to admit that Rolex even makes a > >>> quartz watch. If I had a pricey quartz watch and it failed, I'd > >>> probably > >>> just have a new quartz movement from Seiko or whoever slapped into my > >>> expensive case and get on with my life. > >>> > >>> Those of you who no longer wear wrist watches and have some in your > >>> dresser > >>> drawers with mechanical movements, feel free to send them to me. I'll > >>> sort > >>> out the wheat from the chaff.[?] > >>> > >>> Bill > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
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