Lars,
On 04/27/2016 02:14 PM, Lars Walenius wrote:
Thanks Magnus and Charles,
Could you please explain a little more about this:
Charles wrote:
Loop filters in commercial GPSDOs use algorithms that suppress
systematic ripple on the VCO control related to the comparison frequency.
Magnus wrote:
It will be there, so you need to manage it one way or another.
What is the systematic ripple?
On the comparison frequency, whatever it is, there will be measurements
and adjustments. The overtones of the sample rate it represents will be
a systematic "tone".
Is the comparison frequency normally 1Hz (1PPS)?
Yes.
What is the algorithms used?
There can be many. Oversampling and smoothing that way helps for
instance. Resolution in adjustment is an indirect way.
If I sample the difference between the PPS and the divided 10MHz output every
second and have a third order loop driving a DAC will I get systematic errors?
Yes. Depending on how picky you are you can live with it or you find
ways to manage it.
Cheers,
Magnus
Lars
Från: Magnus Danielson<mailto:mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Skickat: den 27 april 2016 10:02
Till: time-nuts@febo.com<mailto:time-nuts@febo.com>
Kopia: mag...@rubidium.se<mailto:mag...@rubidium.se>
Ämne: Re: [time-nuts] Advise on building a DIY GPSDO?
On 04/27/2016 01:12 AM, Charles Steinmetz wrote:
Lars wrote:
I have wondered what is meant by a proper digital filter below?
Is a proper digital filter something more than the LP-filter + PI-loop
I use in the DIY Arduino GPSDO?
What is used in commercial GPSDOs?
The loops are substantially more sophisticated than a simple LP filter
-- typically 3rd order or higher.
The lowpass-filter + PI-loop is third order.
Well-designed commercial GPSDOs also
have several time constants so they can achieve basic lock using a wider
loop, then narrow the loop in steps until it is fully narrow (unless S/N
is low, in which case they may not reach full narrow and should set an
alarm).
Some care needs to be taken in articulating the filter such that you do
not have to scale the state as you change the parameters. This is
however fairly simple for both the low-pass filter and integrator (which
hold state).
With some care you can articulate the P and I in the forms of equations
relating to the loop parameters you want and compensating for the
DAC/EFC control gain (exact value not important, but getting bandwidth
and damping in the right neightborhood is).
The heuristics about when changing parameters takes some learning. One
of the design criteria is to be able to always capture, but you also
want it to go as quick as possible. Finding a good balance can be
problematic. There is tricks to track-in quicker.
Loop filters in commercial GPSDOs use algorithms that suppress
systematic ripple on the VCO control related to the comparison frequency.
It will be there, so you need to manage it one way or another.
It is extremely unlikely that someone would stumble upon workable
parameters for this sort of loop by trial and error. One needs to
measure and characterize the open-loop behavior, then carefully design
the loop filter to achieve the desired result.
If you know what you are doing, you can get a good start using analysis,
knowing the damping and bandwidth you want. It always becomes a measure
and trim exercise.
Cheers,
Magnus
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