John I don't think so as not sure how many have built a large antenna. Certainly any of the old wwvb receivers have details and thats pretty much what most people copy. Essentially a 3 foot copper loop with numbers of turns of wire connected together. Like 25 pair telco cable connected end to end. A large capacitor is then put across the loop to resonate it at 60 KHz. Then the preamp. Some use a FET transistor followed by a line driver transistor. Power is sent over the coax so a blocking cap and inductor. Really big is 10' by 10' using shielded 36 wire ribbon cable. ( did not use all 36 conductors it was to much L but 800 ft worth. The shield acts like the copper pipe and it must be broken so that it does not look like a shorted loop. Add the cap and preamp. In this case I built a 2 transistor NPN 2n3904 preamp. On the large antenna I use a 2 X 6 post 4ft in the ground with cement. A mast above that to support the antenna and to allow it to be turned a bit to null MSF. Thats it no real magic. Its been operational for 7 years with an occasional transistor replacement. Also coax, darn woodpeckers! Regards Paul WB8TSL
On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 5:14 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. < j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote: > Bob, > > Thanks for the answer; but does anyone actually have a documented > specification posted for one of these 'massive' WWVB 60kHz antennas > someplace? > > Thanks. > > 73's, > John > AJ6BC > > > On Fri, Oct 9, 2020, 08:35 Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote: > > > Hi > > > > At least to me, anything dimensioned in the 100’s of feet is “massive” > > compared to > > the rod antennas normally seen in WWVB use …. > > > > The other point being that if the antenna is some sort of large loop, > it’s > > going to be > > a good long ways away from the receiver. You get both a larger signal > > voltage and better > > isolation ….. > > > > Bob > > > > > On Oct 8, 2020, at 11:30 PM, John C. Westmoreland, P.E. < > > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > > > Are there any design details someplace regarding these massive > antennas? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > John > > > AJ6BC > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2020, 19:27 paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Hello to the group. > > >> Ray as Bob mentions you are taking a 10s of uv signal to a logic level > > of > > >> maybe 4V. > > >> If the loop is any place close to the divided down signal, it will > > >> oscillate. It would take incredible shielding to protect the receiver. > > >> Thats why you often see a solution that doubles to 120 KHz and > modifies > > the > > >> detectors to work at that frequency. That means hacking the radio > > >> internally. Not fun. The other really annoy effect is that the > doubling > > >> slips phace due to noise and propagation. So if charting suddenly you > > get a > > >> 180 degree flip. Thats messy. > > >> The doubling solution can work. Search for carter and there are > several > > >> others. > > >> But having tested and used all of the alternates and lots more on the > > east > > >> coast decided they were too much trouble. You should see the box of > > boards > > >> I have chuckle. > > >> For me I am very happy with the d-psk-r. Though in being above board I > > >> designed version 1 and Rodger and I did version 2. Its solid and no > > mods to > > >> any receiver. Everything has always been released to the time-nuts > > group. > > >> As they say have fun. > > >> Regards > > >> Paul. > > >> WB8TSL > > >> > > >> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 5:39 PM <rcb...@atcelectronics.com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Bob, > > >>> > > >>> I am using a ferrite rod antenna for the receiver. No outside > antenna. > > >>> > > >>> Ray > > >>> > > >>> -------- Original Message -------- > > >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Dephaser Question > > >>> From: Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> > > >>> Date: Thu, October 08, 2020 12:40 pm > > >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > >>> <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > > >>> > > >>> Hi > > >>> > > >>> A lot depends on your antenna setup. You can also swamp out the > > incoming > > >>> WWVB signal……. > > >>> > > >>> Bob > > >>> > > >>>> On Oct 8, 2020, at 2:07 PM, <rcb...@atcelectronics.com> < > > >>> rcb...@atcelectronics.com> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> I have read several different articles where the WWVB phase shift is > > >>>> eliminated by doubling the signal to 120 kHz. Several members of the > > >>>> list have built these units. > > >>>> > > >>>> Assume I build a circuit to double the incoming signal and use a > > >> schmitt > > >>>> trigger to get a 120 kHz square wave. If I then divide that signal > > back > > >>>> down to 60 kHz will that signal be strong enough to swamp out the > WWVB > > >>>> signal? I'm guessing it will be since it is at the 5 volt level and > > >>>> somewhere in the +25 dBm or greater range. > > >>>> > > >>>> Ray, > > >>>> AB7HE > > >>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > >>>> To unsubscribe, go to > > >>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > >>>> and follow the instructions there. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > > >>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > >>> and follow the instructions there. > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > > >>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > >>> and follow the instructions there. > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > >> To unsubscribe, go to > > >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > >> and follow the instructions there. > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > > To unsubscribe, go to > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.