I don't intend to continue this debate as it seems to have run its course, and although tempted, I won't even get into the McCaughey baby issue for the same reason. But I did want to clarify my thoughts related to the following post.
I said: > "This brings me back to the original point for which I cited this > case: religious beliefs can and do lead to immoral decisions." On Mon, 8 Oct 2001, Rick Froman commented: > Maybe > single anecdotes aren't the best evidence of general principles. If the > point was simply that a person can make an immoral decision based on > their religious beliefs, so what? That was made all too obvious in the > events of Sept. 11. That doesn't tell us how rare or common it is > relative to moral decisions made in response to religious beliefs. The easy way to make the point was to point to Bin Laden, or to the Taliban and the harsh rules which they enforce on their subjects, particularly women. But that is we against them, and we all know that their beliefs are immoral. Of course, they believe the exact opposite, but we know better. The more interesting example is one taken from a dominant religion in our own society. Such mainstream religions claim they have a particular expertise in moral issues. What I tried to do was not to tell an anecdote but to provide a counter-example to the belief by followers of a dominant Western religion (in this case Catholic) that their teachings always lead to a moral decision. I do have other counter-examples as well. > And on what empirical basis does Stephen make the moral judgment that "a > moral decision of the highest quality was made in this case is clear to > all except those blinded by religious conviction."? What scientific > study can be used to test the theory that this was a moral decision? If > I take the contrary position (just for the sake of argument) and say > that the judges' decision was immoral, what evidence do you have to > contradict me other than your own feelings and a direct reassertion of > the fact that it was moral and the fact that all right-thinking Norte > Americanos agree with me? Actually, I agree with this, and argued for the relativity of morality in a previous thread some time ago when we discussed the Lucifer Principle. We know bin Laden is evil; yet he believes he is acting out of the highest moral principles, and it is we who are instead evil. So I chose my example carefully. If there is any moral principle which comes close to being an absolute everywhere, I think it would be that it is better to save one life than to let two die. I assume that even the Taliban would agree to that. Yet in the context of this particular case, religious belief of the parents and the Pro-Life Alliance led to the conclusion that letting two die was preferable. This example illustrates (for me, anyway) how religious teachings blind one to seeing what would otherwise be obvious. I would like to say to these people, "If you could suspend your religious beliefs for even just a moment and instead answer only on the basis of what you thought was right, how would you respond?" But that would be impossible for them. Another loose end concerns my claim that some authorities find evidence in the Talmud of afterlife. One source is an interesting web page discussion titled "Olam Ha-Ba: The Afterlife" at www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm/. The assertion is made there that "There is clear evidence in the Torah of belief in existence after death". With citations. -Stephen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stephen Black, Ph.D. tel: (819) 822-9600 ext 2470 Department of Psychology fax: (819) 822-9661 Bishop's University e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lennoxville, QC J1M 1Z7 Canada Department web page at http://www.ubishops.ca/ccc/div/soc/psy Check out TIPS listserv for teachers of psychology at: http://www.frostburg.edu/dept/psyc/southerly/tips/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
