Thanks Rod, While I am a non-believer and probably have made different belief choices than you, I found your entry to be eloquent and timely. Your ideas forced me to reflect on my "Philosophy of Religion" class that I took almost 40 years ago. I didn't realize it at the time, but I was taking those philosophy classes to help me work through my Eriksonian stage. What a class! From topic to topic we found new "friends and enemies" among students in the class on a daily basis as we debated the existence or non-existence of God, the relationship of church and state, the issue of immortality, etc. What a delight to hear atheists quote the Bible in order to justify their beliefs about immortality. Also how shocking when attendance was taken and one of the African-American students was absent because he had chained himself to the doors of a bank in St. Louis while participating in a Civil Rights demonstration. It was the kind of class that obviously touched me in ways that are still with me four decades later. While the class was taught from a philosophical rather than a psychological viewpoint, there was much overlap. At that time, the psychology department was not teaching a class on the Psychology of Religion and I don't think that the APA Division, Psychologists Interested in Religious Issues even existed yet. I hope that other Tipsters follow you suggestion and change the direction of the sharing of ideas.
Amen Michael Bergmire Retired Psychology Professor who now as an Adjunct teaches General Psychology via a Distance Learning format. Jefferson College Hillsboro, MO 63050 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hetzel, Rod" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 10:11 AM Subject: Religion -- is this conversation going anywhere? I'm all for discussing the psychology of religion on this listserve, but right now our conversation doesn't seem to be going in that direction. People are giving examples of supposedly "empirical" evidence that supports their position and proves the other side wrong. We can all find examples of how religion has been harmful to humanity and how it has been helpful to humanity. The fact remains that some people have used religion for good and some have used it for bad. The concept of religiosity is far too complex and multidimensional to support the simplistic assertions that are always made on this list when we talk about religion. I mean really, are we going to blame all of WWII on religion while ignoring other psychological factors (e.g, personality traits of key Nazi leaders, groupthink, social influence, etc.) as well as other political, economic, historical, and sociocultural variables? This conversation is going in the same direction as all of our other discussions about religion: the heat of our discussion will continue to rise, we will eventually start making personal accusation and ad hominem attacks, and then we will reach the blowing point. Let me suggest that if we continue this discussion we start focusing on the psychological theory and research of religiosity. ______________________________________________ Roderick D. Hetzel, Ph.D. Department of Psychology LeTourneau University Post Office Box 7001 2100 South Mobberly Avenue Longview, Texas 75607-7001 Office: Education Center 218 Phone: 903-233-3893 Fax: 903-233-3851 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.letu.edu/people/rodhetzel > -----Original Message----- > From: Herb Coleman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 9:58 AM > To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences > Subject: pursuit of power vs. religion > > > It seems to me that all of the examples below can also be > interpreted as > examples of peoples quest for power. > > > Let's see: > > > > The Holocaust--hatred of the Jews (religiously based). > > > Yes, Jews were targeted and their businesses and property > confiscated by > those who were previously disenfranchised after WWI. Also, Gypsies, > homosexuals, "intellectuals " and anyone who disagreed with > the regime > was likewise targeted. > > >The killing of Buddhist monks and nuns in Tibet by the Chinese > >(religiously based). > > > This was done, I believe, by a government that was non religious in > order to maintain and cement control of a population. > > >9-11 (Islamic Fundamentalism). > > > In name only. We know that 15 of the hijackers came from > Saudi Arabia > where one family rules and controls everything and these men were > marginalized. Suicide attackers only come from populations > where there > is a sense that one will never get a chance to lead or be truly free. > If think about a suicide bomber is a last final act of desperation. > > >Mass killings of Christians in the USSR (by Stalin) and in China > >(by Mao) (religiously based hatred). > > > Also based on a desire to control the population and solidify power. > > >All wars involving Israel (religiously based) > > > Land, and water access can also be seen at the heart of of > this conflict. > > >The Iraq/Iran war (Shite versus Sunni Muslim religious war). > > > Once again fighting for the right to control. There are also > territorial issues here. These countries are oil producing > neighbors. > The other issue is that religion can lead to ethnicity's. That is > generations of families and kinships. This the Shiites in Iraq can > actually be related to the Shiites in Iran. This is why > Turkey fear the > Kurds gaining power in Northern Iraq. They are afraid they will lose > control over the large population of Kurds living in Turkey. > > >Many tribal wars in Africa (based on differing religions). > > > Wrong again. Many of these battles have colonial roots. The > Hutus and > the Tutsis weren't violent enemies before colonialism . However, as > with the Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq when a regime gives power of a > minority over a large majority and that power is abused seeds of > resentment are sown. Once again we are seeing struggles for > power and > anger over past wrongs that have very little if anything to > do with how > the other prays or doesn't pray. > > But that's just my opinion...or is it? > > -- > > Herb Coleman > IT Manager, Rio Grande Campus > Adjunct Psychology Professor > Austin Community College > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 512-223-3076 > ********************************************* > * Every action has a connected and directed * > * pre-action. * > ********************************************* > -Herb Coleman after seeing "Bowling for Columbine" > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
