Marc's was a most thoughtful message.  I would like to address the part
where he suggests that some people "just shouldn't be in college."

I taught for most of my ten year teaching career at UCLA, first both in the
Psych department, where the average grade is C, and the Communication
Studies department, where the average grade is B or B+ and almost as many
students get A as B.  But I've also taught at Community Colleges and
non-traditional colleges, and right now I'm teaching a few classes at
Neumann college in Pennsylvania, a Franciscan institution that prides itself
on taking students who averaged C or D in high school and "giving them a
chance" to make it in college
I should add that I entered academia late in life--I'm 56 now, so I did most
of my undergraduate work in the 1960s.

I'm giving this long preamble for a reason.  Having taken college classes 40
years ago, and having taught both the elite and the low-end of college
students currently, I have given a lot of thought to changes in the quality
of education over the years.  I have seen the level of education in
institutions shift radically.  The quality of work in contemporary
undergraduate institutions is similar to the quality that was expected of
students of my generation in high school.  The first year or two of graduate
school now resemble undergraduate work of 40 years ago (I did my graduate
work at UCLA, by the way).  Moreover, there are many, many students enrolled
in colleges currently who could never have been accepted 40 years ago.

>From my teacher's perspective, I find it frustrating (maddening, actually)
to teach under these circumstances, especially freshman classes.  Students
come in with no interest whatever in learning anything at all, lacking
curiosity, hostile and sullen, maintaining that "Us vs. Them (teachers)"
demeanor characteristic of high school students.  (I admit that I didn't
teach freshman at UCLA very often, so this may not be the case there, but I
suspect it is.)

However, looking at things more objectively, I can see that the entire
purpose of college has changed over the decades, and what is happening is
probably unavoidable, and perhaps (?) necessary.  Colleges have become trade
schools because trades have become more complex and more technological.
People need to know more things to go to work than they used to.  Employers
won't hire people who have not demonstrated the qualities that are necessary
for success in college. Liberal Arts have become increasingly marginal and
considered by many (not by me) to be unnecessary.  The notion that learning
for its own sake is valuable is now quaint.

So keeping people out of college because they lack intellectual skills or
aptitude is a very different act now than it was 40 years ago.  40 years
ago, such people could still look forward to useful employment and careers
in areas that do not require higher learning.  This is no longer true. The
whole purpose of college has changed, and so the quality of student, and
expectations teachers have of students have also changed.

My two cents.

Paul Okami







----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marc Carter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 9:51 AM
Subject: RE: improving student performance and grades through extra credit?



Hi, All --

I don't have advice about this, but I do have some questions and
comments.

First, though, you should know of my incipient curmudgeonhood.  I'm
right on the edge.


So, we present material to students, we generate exams that are based on
material that we have largely covered (or at the least is available in
the text), and we find that students by and large do poorly.  I can at
least add a datum to the discussion and mention that a mean of 50% in an
intro class is certainly something I've experienced.  A lot.

There are a couple of things to note.  Some students -- admittedly few,
but some -- do very well on the exams.  Either these students are
freaks, or they're able to do the work and learn the material and show
that learning on an exam.  I'm not sure how fair it is to them if we do
something that makes it possible for those who have not worked to score
better.  Somehow we have to maintain a way to recognize "outstanding"
students.

I agree that extra credit is a bad idea: if the students aren't gaining
mastery of the material that the class is about, giving them credit for
other work doesn't seem quite right.

Adjusting all the grades often shifts the distribution up, but at some
point we lose the whole idea of grades: grades should represent mastery
of the material, and if someone is getting 50% of the material and walks
out of a class with a passing grade, I'm not sure that's quite right,
either.

I do not like the idea of automatically discarding items that only a few
students answer correctly; often those are the very items that we can
use to discriminate the very good from the excellent or outstanding
students.  We have to look and see *which* few students have answered
the question correctly.


It seems to me that there (at least!) are a few of factors at work in
causing poor performance.  One, and this is especially true in new
college students, is just an inability to study, or an inability to
understand that college is hard and takes more time than high school.
Often in high school most of the learning takes place in class; in
college, understanding is the main aim of lectures and discussions, but
the learning principally has to take place outside the classroom, in the
loneliness of a textbook.  So one thing that I do is explain that
(perhaps too stridently) at the start of the year.

Another problem is getting them to stay current, because when the exams
roll around there's often too much material to learn in a single cram
session.  To that end I have frequent unannounced reading quizzes, but
in those I allow them to use notes: if they read and make notes on the
readings, they can deal with the quiz questions very well.  And I'll
often take questions from the previous class as well as the current
class, to encourage them to periodically review their notes.  That said,
I'm not sure how much difference it makes.  But I try.

Another problem is that students who do realize that study takes time
often don't understand *how* to study.  To get at that, I often in intro
classes start with the chapters on memory, and show them the data on
study and how (relatively) easy it is to apply this to the class.  This,
for students who take it to heart, works.  And if you do it at the start
of the semester, when enthusiasm is highest, students can get into the
habit of doing it that way -- often by the time chapters on memory come
up in intro, they've settled into (bad) study habits.

And then (here is where I expect to get some feedback!) there are just
some students who probably shouldn't be in college, and my feeling is
that inventing ways for them to pass my intro class doesn't really do
them any good.  Sometimes things just work out differently than we hope,
and learning that is just part of life.  And sometimes students who
*should* be in college don't take it seriously, and need to learn that
actions have consequences and they need to change something in order to
make it work.

These are fairly random musings, dashed off on my way to class.  I don't
know if they're at all helpful, but they're things that I've tried in an
attempt to avoid having to fail a large proportion of my classes.  But I
*always* avoid extra credit.

Cheers,

m

--
Marc Carter
Baker University Department of Psychology
Proud member of the Kansas Reality-Based Community
---
The test of our progress is not whether we add more
to the abundance of those who have much;
it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.
 ----- Franklin Roosevelt
-------------------------------------
Bike          __o
 to         _`\<,_
  Work!    (_)/ (_)
------------------------------------- 

-----Original Message-----
From: Christine L. Grela [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 11:05 AM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
Subject: improving student performance and grades through extra credit?

(sorry for any cross posting)

Dear TIPSters,

I think this topic may have been touched on before, but I would like to
get some input.

I have just had my Intro to Psych class finish their midterm exams, and
overall, the class is scoring about 50%.

In previous years, I have curved my exams (the high score so far is 115
out of 140), but I put a statement on the syllabus that grades would be
determined by a 90, 80, 70% structure. However, given this scoring
system, a good portion of my students are failing - which doesn't make
either them or me happy.

I don't want to reward students who haven't been putting time and effort
into studying, but, on the other hand, I don't want to fail half of my
class (or have them drop). So, does anyone have any recommendations? I
was thinking of offering extra credit to students who corrected their
own exams - but I wasn't sure how much to offer. I am also offering 10
points to students who completely a study guide prior to the exam.

Again, I don't want to give credit to students who don't deserve it, and
the midterm is only worth 30% of their grade, but it seems like they do
need some additional help.

Christine L. Grela
Instructor of Psychology
McHenry County College
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



---
You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]



---
You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Reply via email to