Well....yes....but.....is it really your claim that APA's primary concern is to make money and acquire power? I doubt it's declared as such in their charter and bylaws. So without this type of explicit evidence, we must observe behavioral evidence of some form, which I personally haven't. I'd be interested in hearing the evidence from others, though.
I should add that I am not a member of APA, and haven't been in 12 years. Nevertheless, it is not impossible that scientific integrity could be the industry interest. Wally Dixon On 12/4/04 5:17 PM, "Paul Okami" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The problem with being focused on advancing industry interests, making > money, and acquiring power, is that these concerns often conflict with > scientific integrity and the value of an enterprise. > > I certainly want to make money--I have a wife and two small children to > support. But if my *primary* concern were this, I might be lined upon Oprah > to hawk a book about my experience of recovered memory of childhood sexual > abuse or some such. > > It should be no news that in a market-based economy the drive to make money > and acquire power frequently conflicts with excellence in science and the > arts. Ask any jazz musician anywhere in the industrialized world. > > Paul Okami > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wallace E. Dixon, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 5:06 PM > Subject: Re: APA President-elect > > >> I am surprised that Paul speaks of making money and acquiring power as if > it >> were a bad thing for a scientific society. I can't think of anything > better >> to advocate for the science of psychology than an organization that makes >> money and acquires power, AND uses both in the service of advocating >> nationally and internationally for psychological science. >> >> Now, we may argue whether APA IS that organization, or whether we would be >> better served by a different organization. But regardless, for any such >> organization to wield any influence at all, it is going to have to have >> money and power. >> >> I recognize that not all psychologists believe psychology should have a >> formal, science-agenda-pushing national presence, but for those of us who >> do, we will need to have money and power. >> >> Wally Dixon >> >> >> On 12/4/04 2:27 PM, "Paul Okami" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> Patricia >>> >>> It is not that the APA does not offer useful services. It is that the > APA >>> represents the degradation of the science of psychology, its > transformation >>> from a profession to an industry, and its furtherance of highly > destructive >>> social trends (e.g., the "psychologizing" of society). >>> >>> The useful services offered by the APA could occur in the context of a >>> professional society devoted to advancing the scientific aspects of >>> psychology (including science-based clinical psychology), rather than a >>> lobby group for an industry devoted to making money and acquiring power. >>> >>> regards, >>> Paul >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Patricia Spiegel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:34 AM >>> Subject: Re: APA President-elect >>> >>> >>>> Yes Paul, I re-read your comment, and you are correct about not >>> criticizing >>>> Dr. Koocher. It was the same thread, and your statement of mass >>>> resignations from APA was in that context. That is what got to me. To >>>> quote: "If everyone lets their membership to the APA lapse in protest, >>>> maybe something will happen, but given that the APA is actually an >>> industry >>>> guild rather than a professional society, it is doubtful." >>>> >>>> Let me ask you something about that. What would we teaching > psychologists >>>> do without the journals and the expansive data bases maintained by APA? >>> APA >>>> keeps our discipline's history fully intact, keeps us up with what is >>> going >>>> on now, and assures that future work in the field will be readily >>> available >>>> to us all. I think about that every time I pay my dues, > and--recognizing >>>> that no other organization or publisher fills or would be able or > willing >>> to >>>> fill that void should APA become weak--make out that check quite >>> willingly. >>>> >>>> RE: your criticisms of my comments, I believe I answered them. >>>> >>>> Patricia Keith-Spiegel >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Paul Okami" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 3:48 PM >>>> Subject: Re: APA President-elect >>>> >>>> >>>>> As I said, I know absolutely nothing about the man as was not >>> criticizing >>>>> him. For all I know, he is a saint. I was concerned about the > premises >>>>> used to defend him against certain types of criticisms. My points > were >>>>> directed toward Patricia's comments, not toward Dr. Koocher. >>>>> >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Patricia Spiegel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 5:35 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: APA President-elect >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, Stephen. I am glad you said it the way you did, because you >>>>>> don't >>>>>> really know Gerry, and yet he does stop to help anyone who he thinks > is >>>>>> being treated unfairly. >>>>>> Paul O, are you on board to hear from the "target" himself? >>>>>> Tricia >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Stephen Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:15 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: APA President-elect >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3 Dec 2004, Patricia Spiegel wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tell you what. If the two Paul's and Stephen will >>>>>>>> give their permission, I will forward this thread to Koocher > himself >>>>> and >>>>>>>> let >>>>>>>> him respond to your concerns. I look forward to hearing from the 3 >>> of >>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have to admit that after writing my note concerning my dismay at >>>>>>> Dr. Koocher's apparent support for false memory therapy, pushing the >>>>>>> send key was one of the hardest things I've had to do on TIPS. I did >>>>>>> appreciate the help he gave me, and that note seemed like a poor way >>>>>>> to thank him. So I also have to admit that I was hoping that he >>>>>>> wouldn't find out about it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But (as I've been warning people), our posts are readily available > to >>>>>>> anyone who knows how to google. And, in any case, he deserves the >>>>>>> opportunity to respond, although I imagine a president-elect likely >>>>>>> has other more pressing matters to concern himself with at the >>>>>>> moment. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So my answer is yes, I give permission, and I look forward to his >>>>>>> response. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stephen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ___________________________________________________ >>>>>>> Stephen L. Black, Ph.D. tel: (819) 822-9600 ext 2470 >>>>>>> Department of Psychology fax: (819) 822-9661 >>>>>>> Bishop's University e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>> Lennoxville, QC J1M 1Z7 >>>>>>> Canada >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dept web page at http://www.ubishops.ca/ccc/div/soc/psy >>>>>>> TIPS discussion list for psychology teachers at >>>>>>> http://faculty.frostburg.edu/psyc/southerly/tips/index.htm >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >> >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
