(1) Yes, I agree that the clinical community should be making much more of an effort to separate these two constructs, and my distinct impression is that there will be more an effort to do so in DSM-V.
(2) Actually, I'm not aware of much research evidence that PCL-R-assessed psychopathy affords much in terms of recidivism predictions above and beyond diagnoses of ASPD. The meta-analyses I've read suggest that to the extent that the PCL-R is predictive of future violence, this predictive capacity is due largely or entirely to its inclusion of past antisocial and criminal history. Moreover, recent studies suggest that the PCL-R doesn't contribute much to violence prediction above and beyond simple actuarial risk indices comprising previous criminal history variables. If you have any references along these lines to the contrary, though, I'd be most interested in reading them.
(3) My take here might be a bit different from yours. Although I agree that we need to preserve some consistency in our classification systems, we also need to conduct research on alternative/competing conceptualizations of diagnoses. If we don't, it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for us to make revisions to extant psychiatric diagnoses. So I think that we can steer a middle ground by (a) continuing the use the DSM system in our clinical practice (as we must for insurance purposes) and communication with each other in applied work and (b) continuing to explore useful alternatives to DSM categories in our research.
...Scott
Jean-Marc Perreault wrote:
No argument there... But isn't this a problem in itself? If Hare, who's been developing the construct of psychopathy, has always made an effort to separate the two, shouldn't the community aim at doing so as well?
Another interesting fact is that it would appear that ASPD is of little help in terms of predictions of recidivism, whereas a PCL score is helpul, especially for violent offenders.
To top it off, the DSM is critisized for the way it comes up with it's classifications. So, if on top of this, we allow clinicians to come up with their own categories, where does it leave us? I'm not a very strong supporter of the DSM, but at least, it brings about a minimum of consistency (well, one would hope anyhow).
Just some food for thought...
JM
Scott Lilienfeld wrote:
Jean: Actually, many researchers and clinicians do consider psychopathy to be a personality disorder, even though it's not technically a DSM personality disorder. But I agree that the use of this term could invite confusion among some readers, especially those accustomed (as many of us) to thinking in DSM terms. ....Scott
Jean-Marc Perreault wrote:
Very interestingly, on Hare's book /Without conscience,/ (1993), the confusion between ASPD and psychopathy is perpetuated. On the back cover, you can read, "Individuals with this *personality disorder* are fully aware of the consequences of their actions and know the difference between right and wrong, yet they are terrifyingly self-centered, remorseless, and unable to care about the feelings of others".
Hum... Confusing to see this on Hare's book! I've never published a book, so I don't know if he had a chance to apporve the back cover. I certainly would imagine he did not write it himself...
JM
Scott Lilienfeld wrote:
Hi Bill et al.: Actually, although the DSM-IV states (in its accompanying text) that psychopathy and ASPD are isomorphic constructs, most measures of these two constructs are only moderately (r=.5 or so) intercorrelated. Also, about 75-80% of incarcerated criminals meet diagnostic criteria for ASPD, whereas only about 20-25% meet criteria for psychopathy according to Bob Hare's Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R). The term "sociopathy," an old term introduced by Patridge in 1930, has been used inconsistently to refer to (a) psychopathy, (b) something akin to ASPD, with an associated lengthy history of antisocial/criminal behavior (ala the St. Louis group of Robins and Guze), or (c) antisocial behavior that is largely environmental in origin (closer to Patridge's original meaning and resurrrected recently by David Lykken).
....Scott
Goss, Bill wrote:
I thought that both of these terms were historical labels having been replaced by antisocial personality disorder? Bill Goss College of the Rockies Cranbrook, B.C. Ph: 250 489-2751 Ext. 324
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Adams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: February 23, 2005 9:05 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
Subject: RE: Psychopathy and frustration
Sure,
A psychopath meets the clinical standards set by Hervey Cleckley which
include such concepts as: lack of affect, lack of guilt or remorse,
pathological lying behaviors (may be controlled or not), superficial
charm, etc. In other words, a true psychopath does not feel guilt,
shame,
or experience true empathy (he--most are male--can sympathize with
someone, but he can't empathize with him or her). In addition, most have
above average IQs, tend to have very poor work histories (there are
exceptions--particularly among professionals), are risk takers, and have
a
need for above average levels of stimulation and nearly all are "logic"
driven, viewing relationships as being permanent only so long as they
meet
their needs (actually, from a married point of view, many women are very
comfortable with that--so long as they meet their end of the bargain
they
can be certain that their partner will meet his and not become
"infatuated" with someone new). Few psychopaths are capable of feeling
romantic love, although most can feel "companionable" love and concern
for
someone else PROVIDED it benefits them to do so. The infamous "Great
Pretender" Ferdinand DeMara was a classic psychopath, but if you imagine
Mr. Spock from Star Trek you have the perfect model of a psychopath.
A sociopath, on the other hand is a "psychopath gone bad." Normally
somewhat lower in IQ than the average psychopath (although not always)
he
has adapted a life model of violating the standards of society (a
psychopath will violate some standards--many, for example, use
recreational drugs, etc.--but not the major ones). These are the
individuals who end up in the criminal justice system and are among the
most violent of offenders. In this group, you can think in terms of Ted
Bundy, Gary Gilmore, and Joseph Stalin (who, of course, also displayed
some characteristics of paranoia--but since he really DID have enemies
who
wanted to kill him, that may not be unreasonable). Take the Antisocial
Personality Disorder up one peg and you have the sociopath.
Hope that helps a bit. Rick
--
Rick Adams. Capella University Grand Canyon University Jackson Community College
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"... and the only measure of your worth and your deeds will be the love
you leave behind when you're gone." -Fred Small, J.D., "Everything Possible"
-----Original Message-----
From: DeVolder Carol L [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 10:48 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
Subject: RE: Psychopathy and frustration
As a non-clinician, can you explain to me the difference between psychopath and sociopath?
Carol
Carol L. DeVolder, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Psychology St. Ambrose University 518 West Locust Street Davenport, Iowa 52803
Phone: 563-333-6482 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://web.sau.edu/psychology/psychfaculty/cdevolder.htm
________________________________
From: Rick Adams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 2/23/2005 8:14 PM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences Subject: RE: Psychopathy and frustration
Actually, why shouldn't we seem like psychopaths? The percentage of psychologists who are psychopaths is higher than the national average (note that I'm NOT using the term "sociopath" which is not the same thing).
For the record, does anyone care to take a guess at which profession has
the highest percentage of psychopaths (according to Cleckley's
standards,
not Hare's)? I'll post the answer Sunday after everyone who wants to do
so
has had a chance to give it a try.
I'm willing to bet that most people won't get the right profession (be
specific, by the way) and many of those who read the answer will have to
get on the Internet and confirm it before they believe it!
If you're serious gluttons for punishment, try for numbers two and three
as well!
Rick
--
Rick Adams. Capella University Grand Canyon University Jackson Community College
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"... and the only measure of your worth and your deeds will be the love
you leave behind when you're gone."
-Fred Small, J.D., "Everything Possible"
-----Original Message----- From: Shearon, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 7:10 PM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences Subject: RE: Psychopathy and frustration
Jean-Marc- Why are you asking us? Do we seem like psychopaths? :) I
totally apologize for that - it was just wrong! (And God bless the
pigmies
in Africa, to quote Larry). :) Thanks for understanding my quirkiness!
Just got through grading at 2am this morning. Tim
-----Original Message----- From: Jean-Marc Perreault [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 2/23/2005 2:32 PM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences Cc: Subject: Psychopathy and frustration As I mentioned in my last post, I've been studying psychopathy lately for one of my courses. A question came up that neither my criminologist colleague nor I could answer.
Do psychopaths experience frustration, and if so, could we infer that that frustration increases their odds of committing an aggression?
Cheers!
JM
David Campbell wrote:
"B" I'd hate to have the responsibility as a teacher to make this decision. I don't want to have to discriminate between bonafide disabilities and student manipulation to avoid difficult requirements.
--Dave
Frigo, Lenore wrote:
Just a quick survey question and I'll be happy for as many back-channel answers as I can get.
At your college/university, when a student has a disability for which
they need accommodation, is this determination made by
a) individual instructors b) a centralized unit (such as disabled student services) c) either, depending on the student's preference
Thanks, Lenore Frigo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--
Scott O. Lilienfeld, Ph.D.
Associate Professor Department of Psychology, Room 206 Emory University
532 N. Kilgo Circle Atlanta, Georgia 30322
(404) 727-1125 (phone) (404) 727-0372 (FAX)
Home Page: http://www.emory.edu/PSYCH/Faculty/lilienfeld.html
The Scientific Review of Mental Health Practice:
www.srmhp.org
The Master in the Art of Living makes little distinction between his work and his play, his labor and his leisure, his mind and his body, his education and his recreation, his love and his intellectual passions. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence in whatever he does, leaving others to decide whether he is working or playing. To him – he is always doing both.
- Zen Buddhist text (slightly modified)
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Scott O. Lilienfeld, Ph.D.
Associate Professor Department of Psychology, Room 206 Emory University
532 N. Kilgo Circle Atlanta, Georgia 30322
(404) 727-1125 (phone) (404) 727-0372 (FAX)
Home Page: http://www.emory.edu/PSYCH/Faculty/lilienfeld.html
The Scientific Review of Mental Health Practice:
www.srmhp.org
The Master in the Art of Living makes little distinction between his work and his play, his labor and his leisure, his mind and his body, his education and his recreation, his love and his intellectual passions. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence in whatever he does, leaving others to decide whether he is working or playing. To him – he is always doing both.
- Zen Buddhist text (slightly modified)
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