For those who are interested: Teachers College Record 
(http://www.tcrecord.org), Volume 1 for 2005 discusses 
the use of qualitative, and other non-RCT approaches to assessment.

Annette

Quoting Richard Hake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> If you object to cross-posting as a way to tunnel through inter- and 
> intra-disciplinary barriers, please hit "delete" now. And if you 
> respond to this long (18 kB) post, please don't hit the reply button 
> unless you prune the original message normally contained in your 
> reply down to a few lines, otherwise you may inflict this entire post 
> yet again on suffering list subscribers.
> 
> Before proceeding to the main substance, I should like to relay an 
> important comment from EdStat's Dale Berger (2005):
> 
> "Those interested in the 'Gold Standard' issue may wish to read or 
> see the 'debate' between [psychologist] Mark Lipsey and [philosopher] 
> Michael Scriven last summer. It is available in text or streaming 
> video through the link <http://www.cgu.edu/pages/2668.asp>."
> 
> In his AERA-C post of 18 Apr 2005 with the above title, Dennis 
> Roberts (2005) wrote [bracketed by lines "RRRRRR. . . ."]:
> 
> RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
> At 08:54 AM 4/18/2005 [Jason Osborne (2005)] wrote:
> 
> "I have been amazed that this conversation has been going on as long 
> as it has . . . and the lack of fiery rebuttal bothers me as well. 
> While I agree that RCTs are not ALWAYS appropriate, as Richard. . . 
> .[Hake (2005a)]. . .  suggests, they are and should be the gold 
> standard in terms of creating STRONG inference."
> 
> ON the other side of the coin ... it also amazes me when people can't 
> see that while education is not perfect by any stretch of the 
> imagination ...PRODUCTS from this system in large part are highly 
> intelligent ... invent things ... make scientific discoveries ... 
> solve medical problems ... lead governments ... fly 767s ... orbit 
> the planet ... build the Golden Gate Bridge ... and just a zillion 
> other accomplishments THAT for the most part ... started back in 
> their school days.
> 
> School, w/o RCT, does make a huge difference in peoples' lives 
> ...While it might be nice when the opportunity arises to do more RCT 
> in school settings ... it's not the gold standard. Look at the 
> accomplishments of students as they become adults ... THAT's the 
> proof.
> RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
> 
> Great minds run in the same direction. Dennis's point that, judging 
> from its products, the old-time education was not so bad, was also 
> made by POD's Mike Theall (2005a) who wrote [bracketed by lines 
> "TTTTTT. . ."; my insertion of a,b,c] :
> 
> TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
> a. For the majority, education does a pretty good job. . . .
> 
> b. . . . while all the critics scream for "reform" in education, we 
> don't hear much screaming about reforming anything else. Our business 
> & political critics need to do a lot of housecleaning before casting 
> any stones.  Law, medicine, and other professions aren't perfect 
> either and rather than accepting any responsibility for their 
> mistakes, they simply point to education as a handy scapegoat. 
> Frankly, I'm tired of the hypocrisy. . . . .
> 
> c. . . . We all know and admire scores of teachers who are dedicated, 
> thoughtful, capable, and hard-working.  Let's remember these people 
> in our statements and let's fight for the recognition and credit they 
> and education deserve.. . . .
> TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
> 
> My response [Hake (2005b)] was (with apologies to those who have seen 
> this previously):
> 
> HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> I enthusiastically agree with Mike Theall's points "b" and "c," and 
> with Mike Chejlava's (2005) comment regarding the reality of C.P. 
> Snow's "culture gap," so apparent in the posts of Theall (2005), 
> Chejlava (2005), and the POD discussion list generally. 
> 
> However, I vehemently disagree with Mike Theall's point "a," that
> 
> "FOR THE MAJORITY, EDUCATION DOES A PRETTY GOOD JOB."
> 
> In Hake (2000) I listed a few examples of the science illiteracy of 
> the general population (and even the elite graduates of Harvard and 
> MIT) for whom education has NOT done a "pretty good job" (see that 
> article for the references):
> 
> EVIDENCE FOR SCIENTIFIC ILLITERACY (a few of many examples)
> 
> A. Science and Engineering Indicators (NSF, 1998), Chap. 7, "Science and
> Technology"; on the web at 
> <http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/seind98/start.htm>: "..... it appears 
> that only 11 percent of Americans can define the term 'molecule.' . . 
> .  A large proportion of the population knows that a molecule is a 
> small piece of matter, but is unable to relate it to an atom or a 
> cell, which are also small pieces of matter. And, despite substantial 
> media attention to deep space probes and pictures from the Hubble 
> Space Telescope, only 48 percent of Americans know that the earth 
> goes around the sun once each year .. Only 27 percent of Americans 
> understand the nature of scientific inquiry well enough to be able to 
> make informed judgments about the scientific basis of results 
> reported in the media. Public understanding of the nature of 
> scientific inquiry was measured through questions about the meaning 
> of scientific study and the reasons for the use of control groups in
> experiments."
> 
> B. Eugenie C. Scott, "Not (Just) in Kansas Anymore," Science 228, 
> 813-815 (2000); on the web at 
> <http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/288/5467/813>: "In August 
> of 1999, after months of wrangling, the Kansas State Board of 
> Education passed its state science education standards. Against the 
> recommendations of a committee of 27 scientists and teachers, the 
> board voted to strip from the standards all mention of the Big Bang, 
> the age of the Earth, and any reference to organisms having descended 
> from the same ancestors: in other words evolutionary astronomy, 
> geology, and biology. Teachers were informed that evolution would not 
> be included in the state high-school assessment exams, greatly 
> decreasing the likelihood that the subject would be taught . . . As 
> the media probed for more stories, the National Center for Science 
> Education (where I work. . .  <http://www.natcenscied.org/> . . .) 
> informed the sometimes incredulous press that, yes, indeed, 
> antievolutionism is a widespread problem in American kindergarten 
> through high school or 'K-12' education."
> 
> C. Jerome Epstein, "Cognitive Development in an Integrated 
> Mathematics and Science Program," J. of College Science Teaching, 
> 12/97 & 1/98, pp. 194-201:
> "While it is now well known that large numbers of students arrive at
> college with large educational and cognitive deficits, many faculty 
> and administrative colleagues are not aware that many students lost 
> all sense of meaning or understanding in elementary school. . . .In 
> large numbers our students. . .[at Bloomfield College (NJ) and Lehman 
> (CUNY)] . . . cannot order a set of fractions and decimals and cannot 
> place them on a number line. Many do not comprehend division by a 
> fraction and have no concrete comprehension of the process of 
> division itself. Reading rulers where there are other than 10 
> subdivisions, basic operational meaning of area and volume, are 
> pervasive difficulties. Most cannot deal with proportional reasoning 
> nor any sort of problem that has to be translated from English. Our 
> diagnostic test, which has been given now at more than a dozen 
> institutions shows that there are such students everywhere. . . 
> .(even Wellesley! - see J. Epstein, "What is the Real Level of Our 
> Students," 1999, unpublished).
> 
> D. Woodie Flowers "Why change, Been doin' it this way for 4000 
> years!" ASME Mechanical Engineering Education Conference: Drivers and 
> Strategies of Major Program Change, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, March 
> 26-29, 2000; on the web as PowerPoint plus video at 
> <http://hitchcock.dlt.asu.edu/media2/cresmet/flowers/>. (Download the
> free RealPlayer.):
> 
> Slide 42, 43: BBC videotape Simple Minds showing MIT graduates having 
> trouble getting a flashlight bulb to light, given one bulb, one 
> battery, and one piece of wire. This is the MIT counterpart of 
> Harvard's "A Private Universe," a videotape showing Harvard 
> graduating seniors confidently explaining that the seasons are caused 
> by yearly variation in the distance of the Earth from the Sun! And if 
> such occurs at MIT and Harvard, how about Podunk State?
> For "A Private Universe" consult 
> <http://www.learner.org/resources/series28.html>. For an equivalent 
> of the Simple Minds videotape go to Minds of Our Own at
> <http://www.learner.org/resources/series26.html>. The latter gives a 
> description of three Minds of Our Own videotapes available, including 
> the MIT footage: "Why is it that students can graduate from MIT and 
> Harvard, yet not know how to solve a simple third-grade problem in 
> science: lighting a light bulb with a battery and wire? Through the 
> example of an experienced teacher, the program takes a hard look at 
> why teaching fails, even when he uses all of the traditional tricks 
> of the trade. The program shows how new research, used by teachers 
> committed to finding solutions to problems, is reshaping what goes on 
> in the nation's schools."
> 
> But why should one be concerned about the science illiteracy of the 
> general population? Because life-threatening science-related societal 
> problems [e.g., terrorism; overpopulation (doubles about every 35 
> years); threat of weapons of mass destruction; human welfare 
> (starvation, homelessness, unemployment,
> drugs, epidemics, AIDS, etc.); pollution of air, water, land, food; 
> global warming; ozone depletion; deforestation; loss of biodiversity; 
> etc., etc., etc.] cannot be resolved when a scientifically illiterate 
> society elects scientifically illiterate leaders.
> HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> 
> Richard Hake, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Indiana University
> 24245 Hatteras Street, Woodland Hills, CA 91367
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> <http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake>
> <http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~sdi>
> 
> "The global population is precariously large, and will become much 
> more so before peaking some time after 2050. Humanity overall is 
> improving per capita
> production, health, and longevity. But it is doing so by eating up 
> the planet's capital, including natural resources and biological 
> diversity millions of years old. Homo sapiens is approaching the 
> limit of its food and water supply. Unlike any species before, it is 
> also changing the world's atmosphere and climate, lowering and 
> polluting water tables, shrinking forests, and spreading deserts. 
> Most of the stress originates directly or indirectly from a handful 
> of industrialized countries. Their proven formulas for prosperity are 
> being eagerly adopted by the rest of the world. The emulation cannot 
> be sustained, not with the same levels of consumption and waste. Even 
> if the industrialization of the developing countries is only 
> partially successful, the environmental aftershock will dwarf the 
> population explosion that preceded it."
>       E.O. Wilson in "Consilience: The Unity of Knowledge" (Knopf, 1998)
> 
> 
> REFERENCES
> Berger, D. 2005. "Re: Should Randomized Control Trials Be the Gold 
> Standard of Educational Research? online at
> <http://lists.psu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0504&L=edstat-
l&T=0&O=D&X=5892603D63E947357B&Y=rrhake%40earthlink%2Enet&P=6741>.
> 
> Post of 18 Apr 2005 21:52:50-0700 to EdStat. The encyclopedic URL 
> indicates that EdStat is one of the few discussion lists whose 
> archives are closed to non subscribers :-( - WHY ??. However, it 
> takes only a few minutes to subscribe by following the simple 
> directions at
> <http://lists.psu.edu/archives/edstat-l.html> / "Join or leave the 
> list (or change settings)" where "/" means "click on." If you're 
> busy, then subscribe using the "NOMAIL" option under "Miscellaneous." 
> Then, as a subscriber, you may access the archives and/or post 
> messages at any time, while receiving NO MAIL from the list!
> 
> Chejlava, M. 2005. "Re: Random Thought: Leave Them Asking," POD post 
> of 21 Feb 2005 11:07:14-0500; online at
> <http://listserv.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0502&L=pod&O=D&P=25059>.
> 
> Hake, R.R. 2000. "The General Population's Ignorance of Science 
> Related Societal Issues: A Challenge for the University," AAPT 
> Announcer 30(2): 105; online as ref. 11 at 
> <http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake> or download directly by 
> clicking on <http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake/GuelphSocietyG.pdf> 
> (2.1MB).
> Based on an earlier libretto with the leitmotiv: "The road to U.S. 
> science literacy begins with effective university science courses for 
> pre-college teachers." The opera dramatizes the fact that the failure 
> of universities THROUGHOUT THE UNIVERSE to properly educate 
> pre-college teachers is responsible for our failure to observe any 
> signs of extraterrestrial intelligence.
> 
> Hake, R.R. 2005a. Re: Should Randomized Control Trials Be the Gold 
> Standard of Educational Research? online at
> <http://lists.asu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0504&L=aera-l&T=0&O=D&P=2100>. 
> Post of 17/18 Apr 2005 to AERA-C, AERA-D, AERA-G, AERA-H, AERA-J, 
> AERA-K, AERA-L,
> AP-Physics, ASSESS, Biopi-L, Chemed-L, EvalTalk, Math-Learn, Phys-L, 
> PhysLrnR, Physhare, POD, STLHE-L, & TIPS.
> 
> Hake, R.R. 2005b.  "Attacks on Education (was Random Thought: Leave 
> Them Asking)" online at
> <http://listserv.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0502&L=pod&P=R20579&I=-3>. 
> Post of 21 Feb 2005 10:33:05-0800 to AERA-J, AERA-L, AP-Physics, 
> Biopi-L, Chemed-L, PhysLrnR, Phys-L, Physhare, Physoc, & POD.
> 
> Osborne, J. 2005. "should randomized control trials be the gold 
> standard?" online at
> <http://lists.asu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0504c&L=aera-c&D=0&T=0&P=467&F=P>. 
> Post of 18 Apr 2005 08:54:11-0400 to AERA-C.
> 
> Roberts, D. 2005.  Re: should randomized control trials be the gold 
> standard? online at 
> <http://lists.asu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0504c&L=aera-c&T=0&O=D&P=598>. 
> Post of 18 Apr 2005 10:47:40-0400 to AERA-C.
> 
> Snow, C.P. 1959. "The two cultures and the scientific revolution." 
> Available in a 1993 "Canto" edition tiled "The Two Cultures," 
> illustrated by Stefan Collini and published by Cambridge University 
> Press. The publisher states  "This reissue of Snow's controversial 
> Rede lecture of 1959 and its successor piece 'A Second Look' has a 
> new introduction that charts the history and context of the famous 
> debate on the cultural split between the humanities and the sciences."
> 
> Theall, M. 2005a. "Re: Random Thought: Leave Them Asking," POD post of
> 21 Feb 2005 08:30:48-0500, online at
> <http://listserv.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0502&L=pod&O=D&P=24726>. For 
> Theall's  response to Hake (2005b) see Theall (2005b).
> 
> Theall, M. 2005b. "Re: Attacks on Education (was Random Thought: 
> Leave Them Asking)," POD post of 21 Feb 2005 15:27:38-0500, online at
> <http://listserv.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0502&L=pod&P=R21044&I=-3>.
> 
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Annette Kujawski Taylor, Ph. D.
Department of Psychology
University of San Diego 
5998 Alcala Park
San Diego, CA 92110
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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