> Subject: Re: Alex, Washoe, and "Next of Kin" by Fouts
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:07:28 -0500, "Christopher D. Green" wrote:

Disclaimer:  although I have looked at some of these issues
in detail over the past few decades, I don't have the kind of
command of the literature that I would like to address some
of the issues raised here.  That being said, perhaps I can still
add something.

> I must confess that I have not read Fouts' book. When I was interested
> in this topic, I paid much more attention to Kanzi and Sue
> Savage-Rumbaugh (partly because one of my philosopher colleagues here at
> York worked with them for a while, and so he was the one on whom I honed
> my opinions of this topic). The problem appears to be that even the most
> rigorous studies of ape language never seem to disentangle syntax from
> pragmatics.

Without providing a theory of language, it is not clear what to make
of such a statement.  Perhaps the strongest characterization of
Chomsky's theory is that it is a syntax driven account of language
that in its early forms relied upon syntactical relationships instead of,
say, semantic relations (the latter line of inquiry was helped along
by some of Chomsky's students and colleagues though Chomsky
himself did not see the merit of such work -  see Harris' "The Linguistic
Wars" which is listed in the references of the Green & Vervacke
paper cited below).  However, I think that many researchers have
gone beyond such a limited conception of language -- just ask a
sociolinguist.  Language has structure but syntax may be critical in
only some situations and semantic and pragmatic and other factors
may be more critical.  Consider, would a purely syntactic account of
language describe why the following utterance has the structure (?)
that it has:
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas,
probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame
on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again."
-George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
from:  http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbushisms2002.htm
I defy any syntactically oriented linguist to deduce the rules
used to create this and other utterances provided by the source
without citing all of them as the result of "temporary" factors
the contribute to dysfluencies.

One wonders how far apart such utterances are from the
linguistic productions of primates (or is such a question unfair
to primates?)?

Chomsky's contribution to the study of syntax has once been
described as the application of automata theory to a linguistics
that was primarily descriptive (automata theory is the mathematical
theory of computation which in its most familiar form has given rise
to the "rule and symbol" cognitive architectures represented by the
computer metaphor of information processing, instantiated in the
"modal model" of memory by Atkinson & Shiffrin, the problem
solving approach of Simon and Newell and many others until that
other computational metaphor, that is, neural networks/connectionism,
re-emerged in the 1980s).  One can claim that such a theoretical
framework "defines" the nature of language, making syntactic issues
paramount but where is the warrant that states that this is indeed the
correct nature of language in contrast to only providing a tentative
theoretical framework which will ultimately have to be rejected in
favor of a better, more powerful theory of language?

> For instance, if you asked Kanzi to put the keys in the
> fridge, he would do it. But so would any creature that could understand
> he symbols for "keys" "fridge" and "in." You don't need syntax. There is
> only one way that keys, fridges, and "in" can *practically* go together.
> I always wanted to know what would happen if you told Kanzi to put the
> fridge in the keys. Would he freeze and look at you funny, like any
> human over the age of three would? Or would he happily put the keys in
> the fridge? Actually, there is a book by Joel Wallman called /Aping
> Language/ (1992) that went through the Kanzi protocols, picking out the
> very small number of sentences that were not pragmatically constrained
> in this way. His conclusion was that Kanzi's behavior was essentially
> random in such instances.

I haven't read Wallman's book but given that it is so difficulty for
behavior to be random, my first concern would be whether Wallman
really wants to say that Kanzi's productions had no structure.  Is he
really saying that in the absence of pragmatic constraints, each
word/concept in an utterance has an equal probability of occurring
in each position of the utterance?  How many instances of each
specific utterance did he use (questions of represenativeness
and power to detect statistical pattern become relevant, especially if
he is relying upon a small corpus of producations).  I guess that I'll
have to look at the book and the data (if it is available for independent
analysis) to see if Kanzi's utterance are truly independent or have some
statistical structure that is not acknowledged as being syntactic.

I must admit that I'm curious why the above passage seems to indicate
that if pragmatic constraints are present, syntactic constraints (however
defined) are not present?

> Thus, like Chomsky, I have no doubt that these are very smart animals
> who can acquire a small set of lexical symbols, and will figure out what
> you want them to do as best they can. But do they have our innate
> capacity to abduce grammar from the linguistic environment around us?
> Not a chance.

Sorry to beat a dead horse but what do you mean by "grammar"?
The last time I bothered to look at linguistic theories, there were at least
a half dozen theories of syntax.  Why choose Chomsky's version?
Also, I would just like to briefly focus on the following paragraph
from the Green & Vervaeke (1997) paper:

|It seems that many of those who were opposed to a formal theory
|of grammar in the 1960s (and their students) are still opposed to it
|today, but continue to trot out the same old critiques without bothering
|to keep up with new developments. Some have argued that Chomsky's
|continuous revision of his theory makes him impossible to "pin down,"
|and imply that he is engaged in some sort of ruse to keep his critics
|"off balance." A close reading of the revisions, however, shows them
|to be well-motivated by and large, and indicative of a progressive
|research programme, in Lakatos' (1970) sense. We take his modifications,
|far from being some sort of ruse, to be simply good scientific practice;
|a practice that more psychological theoreticians should consider adopting.

For a contrary view which may help to explain why many
psycholinguists have moved on to other issues in the psychology
of language, such as memory-based accounts of language, see
the following:

Reber, Arthur S. (1987).  The rise and (surprisingly rapid) fall
of psycholinguistics.  _Synthese_ 72 (1987) 325-339

ABSTRACT. Psycholinguistics re-emerged in an almost explosive
fashion during the 1950s and 1960s. It then underwent an equally
abrupt decline as an independent sub-discipline. This paper charts
this fall and identifies five general factors which, it is argued, were
responsible for its demise. These are: (a) an uncompromisingly strong
version of nativism; (b) a growing isolation of psycholinguistics from
the body psychology; (c) a preference for formal theory over empirical
data; (d) several abrupt modifications in the "Standard Theory" in
linguistics; and (e) a failure to appreciate the strong commitment to
functionalism that characterizes experimental psychology. In short,
what looked like a revolution two decades ago turned out to be merely
a local reformation that occurred along side of and largely independent
from the real revolution in the cognitive sciences.
(NOTE:  other articles in this issue of Synthese are relevant to
how psycholinguistics was being viewed/evaluated at the end of
the 1980s).

I understand that the Green & Vervacke paper might be in response
to the issues raised in the Reber paper though Reber is not cited in
it.  From my own experience is assisting in running the Psycholinguistics
Circle at NYU, by the 1990s psychologists were less and less interested
in Chomsky and purely syntactic approaches to language,  Instead,
their concerns brought them back to the mainstream of cognitive
psychology though others (such a Steve Pinker) continued to cling
to some of aspects of the Chomskyan tradition (e.g., aspects of
nativism).

> Or, to use my favorite of Chomsky's analogies: Can humans fly? Yes, in
> fact at every Olympic Games humans fly about the same distance your
> average chicken can fly. We call it the Long Jump. But the mechanisms by
> which humans and chickens "fly" are so wildly different that it makes
> almost no sense to even pose the question. Chickens, inept as they are,
> fly in essentially the same way that eagles do. Humans, on the other
> hand, use their quite different abilities to reach approximately the
> same level of achievement as a low-level bird, but it makes little sense
> to call it flying. Mutatis Mutandis for chimps and language.

Perhaps because it is an example by Chomsky, it misses the point.
I think that Chomsky is in some ways like Skinner, both hold beliefs
about the nature of language and behavior that seem to be impervious
to alternative beliefs or conceptions.  Chomsky will probably go to
the grave thinking that syntax is the only way of defining language
(similar to Skinner's belief that only behavior should be used to define
the focus of psychology) and this quaint notion will be superseded by
other, more powerful conceptions about the nature of language.

-Mike Palij
New York University
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> If you happen to care what I think about all this in more detail, have a
> look at a 1997 chapter a wrote with John Vervaeke called "But What Have
> You Done for Us Lately?: Some Recent Perspectives on Linguistic
> Nativism" at http://www.yorku.ca/christo/papers/innate.htm
>



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