���On 16 July 2009 Joan Warmbold cited an article by the psychoanalyst and 
psychohistorian Lloyd deMause as evidence of the wide prevalence of 
child abuse throughout history. I have learned by experience that work 
by certain scholars may look impressive -- until one sees how accurate 
they are in relation to subject matter of which one has some knowledge 
in depth.

I have come across some of deMause's writings before, and found it 
wanting in scholarly accuracy and balance, e.g.: The Universality of 
Incest
http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/06a1_incest.html

Here are a few examples from this article. In attempting to fashion a 
portrait of Freud in accord with his own contentions about the ubiquity 
 
of incestuous child sexual abuse, deMause writes that Freud's reworking 
of his mid-1890s infantile seduction theory "did not imply any doubting 
of his patients' memories of real incest": "For the rest of his life, 
in fact, Freud reiterated his belief that these clear memories of 
incestuous attacks were real. In 1905 he wrote, 'I cannot admit that in 
my paper on 'The Aetiology of Hysteria' I exaggerated the frequency or 
importance of the effects of seduction, which treats a child as a 
sexual object prematurely'..."

First, Freud's early childhood sexual abuse claims of 1896 were not 
predominantly about *incest*. Second, in the quoted sentence Freud was 
disingenuously endeavouring to extricate 
 himself from his 1896 theory 
while keeping face by still maintaining the validity of his (100 
percent in hysterics and obsessionals!) 1896 'findings'. Contrary to 
deMause's apologetics, when Freud next discussed the episode (1914) he 
made no mention of any genuine cases of childhood sexual abuse among 
those patients.

DeMause goes on to say that Freud "considered the incestuous memories 
of such patients as Katharina, Rosalia H., Elisabeth von R. and the 
Wolf Man as reality, not fantasy..."

There was no claim of a memory of childhood sexual abuse in the 
Elizabeth von R. case (from "Studies in Hysteria" [1895]), nor did the 
infant Wolf Man have "memory" of the (absurd) "primal scene" o
 f 
parental sexual intercourse.

Perhaps more important are deMause's assertions in relation to Sandor 
Ferenczi and Robert Fliess: "Ferenczi not only found that many of his 
patients had clear memories of late childhood seduction but also 
described how many of his adult patients confessed to having sexual 
relations with children..."  [...] Robert Fliess, after a lifetime of 
psychoanalytic experience in the removal of amnesia from early 
memories, regularly found real sexual molestation of his patients at 
the core of their problems..."

I have briefly examined the plausibility of such contentions in an 
Addendum to my 1998 article in "History of the Human Sciences" on 
Jeffrey Masson and the 
 seduction theory. (It was omitted from the 
published article due to length considerations.) See 
http://human-nature.com/esterson/addendum.html
Scroll down to the final section, "The Wolf Man, Sandor Ferenczi and 
Robert Fliess"

Joan writes that deMause "describes the resentment and adversity he 
confronted when he discovered how wrong the original ideal view of 
childhood through the ages was." If deMause's historical scholarship is 
as open to question as his credulous treatment of the claims of 
Ferenczi and Robert Fliess, it may well be that criticisms are based on 
concerns about the nature of the evidence for his historical 
contentions rather than resentment.

Joan writes in relation to "the origi
 nal ideal view of childhood 
through the ages" that the article she cites "provides yet another 
example of how we humans are NOT pleased when conventional wisdom is 
challenged." Given that our view of childhood past is probably coloured 
more by Dickensian rather than idyllic images, I suspect the opposition 
to deMause stems from doubts about his psychohistorical contentions 
about incest rather than from any preconceived views about childhood in 
the past in general.

Reference
Esterson, A. (2001). “The mythologizing of psychoanalytic history: 
deception and self-deception in Freud’s accounts of the seduction 
theory episode.” History of Psychiatry, 12 (3), pp. 329-352. 
http://www.esterso
 n.org/Mythologizing_psychoanalytic_history.htm

Allen Esterson
Former lecturer, Science Department
Southwark College, London
http://www.esterson.org

---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joan Warmbold <[email protected]>
                        
Subject: Re: Upending conventional wisdom: On violence

Re: Upending conventional wisdom: On violence
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:30:54 -0500 (CDT)

Guess I'm a bit surprised that this question is even being asked.  As 
most
folks know, books about the source of violence reveal that adolescents 
and
adults who are violent and kill consistently had an abusive childhood.

http://www.screamsfromchildhood.com/child-abuse-murder.html
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ap/ad/2002/000
 00025/00000002/art00462

And, as it turns out, childhood was no picnic for most of human 
history.
As discussed in the book by Lloyd deMause, The History of Childhood, 
child
abuse was relatively ubiquitous until the last century and the idyllic
view of childhood in the 'days of yore' was pure fabrication that suited
folks favored perspectives as opposed to being a reality.  The URL below
describes the resentment and adversity he confronted when he discovered
how wrong the original ideal view of childhood through the ages was.  It
makes for fascinating reading and provides yet another example of how we
humans are NOT pleased when conventional wisdom is challenged.

http://www.psychohistory.com/childhood/writec
 h1.htm

Hence, with far higher levels of child abuse, came far higher levels of
murder and violence.  For those interested in how abuse impact
neurodevelopment, the URL below will take you to a excellent article on
that topic.

http://www.childtrauma.org/ctamaterials/Vio_child.asp

Joan
[email protected]

> Steven Pinker asks whether modern society is more violent than in 
earlier
> supposed idyllic times. His verdict is no.
>
> http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/greatergood/2009april/Pinker054.php
>
> Stephen
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Stephen L. Black, Ph.D.
> Professor of Psychology, Emeritus
> Bishop's University      e-mail:  [email protected]
> 2600 College St.=0
 D
> Sherbrooke QC  J1M 1Z7
> Canada


























        
Attached Message

        

                


                        
From:

                        
Paul Brandon <[email protected]>

                

                

                        
Subject:

                        
Re: Upending conventional wisdom: On violence

                

                

                        
Date:

                        
Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:06:38 -0500

                

        









OK -- I actually read the article.
Pinker does NOT seem to be propounding a genetic basis for violence.
On the other hand, there's a lot of speculation there.

 In particular, using modern hunter-gatherer societies as a proxy for
our ancestors presents problems.
These are marginal groups living under marginal and stressed conditions.
In many cases, they have 'culturally devolved' from agriculturalists
to hunter/gatherers as a result of being driven off of more
productive land into the jungle.

One explanation for the current decrease in violence that has not
been raised is that our capability of mass destruction has
effectively scared the shit out of us.
Before WWI there was little mass destruction in the current sense.
When the Romans 'decimated' (killed every tenth person) a city, they
did it one by one with swords.
The gas warfare of WWI, and of course Coventry, D
 resden, Tokyo and
Hiroshima brought an impersonal element of destruction far beyond
starting fires in a city with a balista.

Another small matter:
Pinker talks a good deal about violence prevalence in Europe, but
does not compare it with the United States.

On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:18 PM, Paul Brandon wrote:

> But a better question is:
> Is modern society more violent than it could be?
> Is Pinker arguing that human violence is unavoidable (genetic)?
> I would guess that that would be an implication of his argument
> (which I've seen before).
>
> The other point is that our potential for annihilation is greater
> than it was in the past.
>
> On Jul 16, 2009, at 4:37 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Steven Pinker asks whether modern society is more violent than in
>> earlier supposed idyllic times. His verdict is no.
>>
>> http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/greatergood/2009april/Pinker054.php

Paul Brandon
Emeritus Professor of Psychology
Minnesota State University, Mankato
[email protected]

























        
Attached Message

        

                


                        
From:

                        
[email protected]

                

                

                        
Subject:

                        
re: Chest/chest

                

                

                        
Date:

                        
Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:15:24 -0700 20(PDT)

                

        









I thought it was an example of auditory perception--the need for 
context.
Something like the sentence, "Have you seen the new display?" versus 
"Have you
seen the nudist play?"

Annette

Annette Kujawski Taylor, Ph.D.
Professor of Psychology
University of San Diego
5998 Alcala Park
San Diego, CA 92110
619-260-4006
[email protected]


---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:54:58 -0400
>From: [email protected]
>Subject: re: [tips] Chest/chest
>To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)" 
<[email protected]>
>
> Frantz, Sue wrote:
>
>> >Hi all,
>> > Need an example of percepti
 on?
>
>Mike Palij commented:
>
>>
>> I'm not sure that this is an example of perception but then again
>> you don't specify what you mean by "perception".
>
>I'd vote for the spotlight effect, which could be considered a form of
>distorted perception.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/43x6by
>
>Stephen
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>Stephen L. Black, Ph.D.
>Professor of Psychology, Emeritus
>Bishop's University      e-mail:  [email protected]
>2600 College St.
>Sherbrooke QC  J1M 1Z7
>Canada
>
>Subscribe to discussion list (TIPS) for the teaching of
>psychology at http://flightline.highline.edu/sfrantz/tips/
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
 
>---
>To make changes to your subscription contact:
>
>Bill Southerly ([email protected])








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