���On 31 August 2009 Michael Smith wrote: >Generally someone makes a point and provides a reference and >the point tends to be considered proven and true.
Does it? That's not the general impression I have of TIPSters' attitudes. (I suggest that if this were the case, there would be little point to TIPS.) >Of course the public position of almost everyone is that they >don't accept the point as proven and true. But, rather, the point >is neither accepted nor denied for now. And everyone will of >course claim that they will check out the reference(s) > -- as if that is very likely. On any one thread the number of TIPSters responding is generally rather few. Of those who say th ey will check the references, how do you know that they are unlikely to have done so? My impression is that those who are the more interested in the topic in question and say they'll check the references frequently do so. >How many (much fewer to almost non-existent I think) will then >go on to seek out conflicting opinions and references (and again >thoroughly study those) when they already have a bias that the >point is true (the example here that spanking is not effective >and is indeed harmful, as all the academics know). It is true that there are some topics that tend to produce a consensus but we are fortunate on TIPS that there is generally someone (I think one in par ticular may come to mind – check out the "spanking" thread!) who will challenge that consensus, with citations provided for consideration. Even if most TIPSters don't check out the citations in detail (or even at all), the challenge will at least mean that they are aware that the "consensus" view is not necessarily proven. >The inclusion of a reference or two which "settles it" can >be a kind of reference to authority. I don't know how a reference or two can "settle" any issue, though a closely argued, scholarly article may provide good evidence for a specific viewpoint. >Again though, many will say, yes--but a reliable authority. >But again, people can't know this unless the y thoroughly >read and study the relevant papers (and of course the >opposing papers)--which is unlikely to happen. I haven't noticed a general propensity among TIPSters to treat cited specific authors as "authorities" not open to question (especially in a subject like psychology!). Of course it is very time-consuming to read sometimes lengthy articles and opposing articles, and no doubt TIPSters only do so if they have a specific interest in the topic in question, but this is inevitably the case with busy people. Allen Esterson Former lecturer, Science Department Southwark College, London http://www.esterson.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------=0 D Re: [tips] Spanking - an idea that won't go away Michael Smith Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:30:30 -0700 Michael Sylvester said he is tired of the demand for references. lol Well that's not likely to change, but I agree that you have a point. Generally someone makes a point and provides a reference and the point tends to be considered proven and true. Of course the public position of almost everyone is that they don't accept the point as proven and true. But, rather, the point is neither accepted nor denied for now. And everyone will of course claim that they will check out the reference(s) -- as if that is very likely. Or even if they do get around to checking out a reference (agai n I think pretty unlikely unless they have a specific use for it), how many will thoroughly read and study it to find if the point made is justified? How many (much fewer to almost non-existent I think) will then go on to seek out conflicting opinions and references (and again thoroughly study those) when they already have a bias that the point is true (the example here that spanking is not effective and is indeed harmful, as all the academics know). The inclusion of a reference or two which "settles it" can be a kind of reference to authority. Again though, many will say, yes--but a reliable authority. But again, people can't know this unless they thoroughly read and study the relevant=2 0papers (and of course the opposing papers)--which is unlikely to happen. --Mike --- To make changes to your subscription contact: Bill Southerly (bsouthe...@frostburg.edu)
