Taking a step back for a second, I think we've overlooked an important part of Michael's original question that was beneath the surface of what he actually asked. Namely, is psychology to blame (in part) for the apparent increase in teen violence (or something to that effect). The discussion then rapidly turned to why it is inappropriate (and often unnecessary) to spank you kids, which is what he asked on the surface. But, I think there is another angle on this that has at least a little bit of merit. In my opinion, psychology is, in part, to blame. Is it because we should support spanking? Not at all. It is because psychology often does a poor job of relaying its message to the general public (and sometimes our own if we believe that Michael is a teacher of psychology with training in the field). There appears to be a misunderstanding among the general public that when a psychologist says "don't spank your child" it means "don't discipline your child." As a field I think we have not done a good job of clarifying this difference for the general public. Similar things have happened with concepts such as "self-esteem" which has been turned into an argument against having standards in several cases (in my opinion). Although we have reached some, there are still misunderstandings about many issues within psychology by the average person on the street. My guess is that many do not know of any other method of discipline besides spanking, and that is where the misunderstanding starts. Remember, the average person has not necessarily had an intro psych class and they sure don't read the scientific journals on a regular basis to stay up-to-date on effective methods of discipline. They use what they perceive to work, but then panic when they hear a news report on 20/20 talking about how detrimental spanking is. Now they are left with no means of disciplining their child, because the only way they know is how they were disciplined. They might hear of this mystic thing called "time-out" but they have no idea at all how to implement such a method of discipline and what needs to be involved and why. Also, some make the argument to themselves that they turned out okay (or at least they think they are okay) despite the spankings, so it is okay to treat their children the same way they were treated growing up. I often wondered if their memories of how they were treated are actually reflected in their method of raising their child. (I'm sure there is research on this, but not my area and not of enough interest for me to find out right now.) So, in my opinion and speculation (which is all this is really), yes psychology is in part to blame by not ensuring that our findings are more accurately and truthfully betrayed in the media. Of course, we could blame the media, but I think that is just trying to find a scapegoat for some of our own shortcomings as a field... - Marc PS- Michael stated in his original message: "Is this type of perspective making parents feel guilty and hence avoiding a well deserved licking(spanking) on the kid? ... We should also be aware that the authoritarian way of parenting works very well in the non-Eurocentric world and so does discipline,spanking,and a good licking." I was wondering what constitutes a "deserved" licking and a "good" licking? How are these two different, and is there a difference between them? Does one imply the other? Just trying to get a grip on the different types of lickings... G. Marc Turner, MEd Lecturer & Head of Computer Operations Department of Psychology Southwest Texas State University San Marcos, TX 78666 phone: (512)245-2526 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ...