On Mon, 18 Oct 1999, Paul Brandon wrote:
> Placebos were (and are) used when there is no treatment available that is
> effective enough to justify its side effects.
> This basic pragmatism is at the heart of scientific behavior, and there is
Be careful here,Paul.It seems to me that the idea of behind a placebo
is the "absence of the treatment ingredients."
Some experimental procedures do not use a placebo control
group,but because of certain assumptions of equality such as
randomization,may just as well conduct a pre- and-post measurement
procedures,with the control group just standing by.
Hence even in those societies where there were not rigid experimental
procedures,what we call placebos,testimonials,anecdotes,mind over body
served as independent variables with the non -engaging individuals
as a loosely defined control.
> I'm sure that the Egyptian and Mesopotamian astronomers and architects who
> were the original scientists worked this way, as did the Minoan navigators
> and the Greeks who inherited their practices.
> The Hellenistic civilization which produced the first formal descriptions
> of the sceintific method was not limited to Greece. It also included Egypt
> (Africa) where the city of Alexandria contained the greatest library of
> ancient times, and Asia Minor (including what is now Turkey and Syria).
> The mathematics of modern science would be impossible without concepts that
> the Arabs learned from the (East) Indians.
>
> When one rejects scientific practices, one rejects the collective
> experience of ALL effective civilizations, not just those that happen to be
> located in Europe.
> effective (see Susan Blackmore on 'memes'), and that, rather than logical
> argument, is the final answer.
How about Art,religion ,music,architecture,health and nutrition.
Btw,the way have you thought that those so called scientific practices
have led to "intellectual aggression" of the Euro-centerd against
other peoples of the Non-Western world.
I subscribe to the notion that aggression is not the cause of war,
ou are committingbut war over ideas as the cause of aggression.
Have the scientific given them a better state of living?
I see the Chinese junk (boat) is still doing well,and they do not have
replacement parts from Allstate.
I could go on and on with this,including the Eurocentic penchant to
objectify time.Response time seem to be more important than
the flexible sequentiality of events in the non-Western world.
> Some observations:
> The cultures of the Pacific Rim are manufacturing computer chips, not
> prayer wheels. They also buy and use computers.
> The Indian economy is increasingly based on computer programming; a product
> which can be exported electronically (the Indians have long been excellent
> mathematicians -- they invented the concept of 'zero' -- and the logic that
> mathematics represents).
> A new phenomenon in major American hospitals which has surfaced in the last
> year:
> inhabitants of third-world nations flying into the U.S. and taking a cab to
> a major hospital emergency room for treatment of serious illnesses that
> can't be treated at home. They've learned from friends and relatives here
> that most hospital emergency rooms will treat anyone who walks through the
> door.
> Bellevue in NYC discovered this when they checked there records to see how
> many homeless people they were treating. They found fewer homeless than
> expected, but many more foreign nationals.
>
> Cultural practices (memes) are selected to the extent that they are more
> effective than competing ones. The competition is now world-wide. This,
> not academic prattle, will be the final arbiter.
>
You are committing the Westernization fallacy-the notion that the more
incorporative a culture and its people adapt, adjust to the Westernized
paradigm,the more advanced they will be and better off medically and in
other areas. What we have to learn from the examples you give is
that international folks are good in applying the concept of "strategic
acculturation" and medicine and healing can be a paradox for our
immigrants. The may seek the supposedly superior western medical help,
but the cultural factors of family support still play a vital role in
healing.
As to the fly wheel,modern technology is factor,but from my experience
with international students,they seem to have a very good grasp of the
concepts behind computer functions and mathematics.
What the U.S has is the advanced software and quick access.
I have a beef with some of the ideas of I/O;it assumed that the Pacific
rim countries were doing ok because of the westernization model,but the
nature of Chinese and Indian society plays a heavy role with their
achievements.Again authoritarian management styles and the industrial
family are significant dynamics in those cultures.
Michael Sylvester,Ph.D
Daytona Beach,Florida
