And another note (it's been lo these many since I read the books):

Unlike classic Utopias, Skinner never intended Walden II to be the final word 
on the subject.
In fact, he referred to it as an "experimenting society" and built data 
collection into the design.
He assumed that if it was ever tried, feedback from the actual practice would 
result in continuous changes from his starting structure.
In fact, this is what happened with Los Horcones, an experimental community in 
Mexico based on his concepts.
See: 
http://www.loshorcones.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=27&Itemid=23&371bc3b7b9e8a0be656ff3e40becf1e4=3e6c8ead66929ee8741258803485f000,
 founded in 1973 and still operating.

Also, while you could refer to the social structure as 'collective' in that it 
was a small community with a common goal, it lacked one defining feature of 
socialism: lack of individual ownership.
Walden II was more of a corporate structure, with individual members as 
shareholders.
In fact, if I remember correctly, members had the option of leaving and taking 
the value of their shares with them.
It was definitely sui generis.

On Apr 11, 2014, at 5:17 PM, Paul Brandon wrote:

> On Apr 11, 2014, at 4:40 PM, Christopher Green wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 2014-04-11, at 4:00 PM, michael sylvester wrote:
>>> Skinner was suspected of being a commie.Did he ever come under the radar of 
>>> the House Un-unAmerican activities Committee?
>> 
>> The society depicted in _Walden II_ was certainly collectivist, if not 
>> actually "communist." (If by that word you mean Marxist. There were lots of 
>> other communisms before Marx). I can imagine the small minds on HUAC getting 
>> nervous about that. 
> 
> 
> As I once pointed out to Paul Meehl when he likened Skinner to 
> communism/socialism -- the defining credo of socialism is 'to each according 
> to his need, from each according to his ability', which is a direct 
> contradiction of the principle of reinforcement underlying Walden Two, which 
> is that consequences must be appropriate to the work required of individuals.
> 
>>> And with  some Ukrainians opting to rejoin Russia,wouldn't this 
>>> illustrative of
>>> Skinner's idea that we cannot afford freedom?
> 
> 
> It might if Skinner had ever had that idea.
> What he actually said (read Beyond Freedom and Dignity  and  About 
> Behaviorism) was that we cannot afford the concept of philosophical or 
> theological freedom (as opposed to political or social freedom) then popular.
> 
>> Closer to Erich Fromm's "Escape From Freedom." 
> 

Paul Brandon
Emeritus Professor of Psychology
Minnesota State University, Mankato
[email protected]




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