On Tue, 10 Feb 2015 06:40:41 -0800, Annette Taylor wrote:
I still have all of those emails in a folder if anyone wants
to resurrect. I think it's work a publication! Sounds like
one of those things that could even go to the American
Psychologist.
A few points:
(1) I'm sure that several of people who were "Iceberg Hunters"
still have the original emails and materials as well as new
materials gathered after contact about this topic stopped.
We probably have more material about the topic now than
we had then but we still may not have enough for reasons
I'll make clear below:
(2) I believe Ken Steele was the person who had taken on
writing duties for summarizing the key findings that had been
made, primarily derived from the literature from the 20th
century. I don't remember exactly why work was stopped but
if memory serves (an untrustworthy tool) we hit a snag with
G. Stanley Hall. We knew that he used the iceberg metaphor
with his "Spooks and Telepathy" article in Appleton's magazine
but no one could find Hall's use of it elsewhere, especially in
connection to Freud. This led to the suggestion that someone
should go at take a look at the Hall's papers in the library at
Clark University to see if there were any unpublished papers
where Hall had used the iceberg metaphor as a description
of Freud's metaphor of mind. However, no one apparently
followed up on this point. So, we were left with the questions
of whether Hall had used the iceberg metaphor elsewhere
(which Chris Green has now answered) and did he use it in
describing Freud's theory (we still don't know the answer to
this question). Hall seems to be the most reasonable person
to make such a connection but we have no evidence that he
did. That others like Hunter made a connection is intriguing
but is the connection original with him or is he relying upon
an unaccredited source (e.g., informal discussions with Hall or
other psychologists, philosophers, alienists/neurologists, etc.).
The only thing that it seems we're really sure of is that Freud
never used the metaphor in his published work. Whether he
used in talks or informal discussions is a possibility but Freud
scholars would argue that he may have preferred other metaphors.
(3) A real problem is getting access to 19th century sources,
especially in other languages. For example, there is good reason
to believe that Johann Herbart originated the iceberg metaphor
of mind which would then influence other peoples' thinking, such
as Fechner, which would then influence how Freud thought of
the mind. Consider the following quote that come from
Radman, Z. (1996). Metaphors: figures of the mind (Vol. 4).
Springer Science & Business Media.
|A look back into the history of mind-conceptions brings us
|to one of Locke's adherents, the psychologist Johann Friedrich
|Herbart. His depiction of the mind is basically Lockean: the mind
|is an »apperception mass« which serves as a container for ideas.
|Herbart's conception of the mind is spatially organized through
|the use of various metaphors, the basic one being »iceberg«.
|This metaphor suggests that the upper (visible) part of an iceberg,
|which represents consciousness, is just one segment, the smaller
|one, of our entire mental structure; the lower (hidden) part of the
|»iceberg«, which is larger and submerged in the water, corresponds
|to the subconscious. For the Herbartean psychologist, the subconscious
|mind is a kind of »jar« which contains past experiences.
The »threshold«
|set between the two spheres is not freely passable. Those ideas
|which successfully push their way through, from the lower to the upper
|part, are transformed so that uncontrollable psychic events come under
|conscious control. This also suggests that there is a dynamics
|in the »region« of the subconscious, sometimes described as a
|»battleground« of ideas which fight for dominance.
NOTE: Available on books.google.com; here is a link to the page that
the above quote comes from:
https://books.google.com/books?id=IPIsBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT188&dq=%22Metaphors:+Figures+of+the+Mind%22+iceberg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4DnaVISnJvDgsATayIDQCA&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22Metaphors%3A%20Figures%20of%20the%20Mind%22%20iceberg&f=false
What a wonderful quote! It clearly establishes Herbart as the
originator
of the iceberg metaphor of mind but, wait, what are the sources for the
claims? Why are there no citations of the relevant research? Which of
Herbart's writings (many in German and not translated into English)
provides the basis for this? Is this an accurate summary of Herbart's
writings or is it a mistaken, ill-remembered interpretation of what
Herbart wrote?
NOTE: Radman goes on to explain that the spatial nature of the iceberg
was used by Freud but he converted it into a house metaphor (about the
next page from the above quote) but, again, no citations.
It will take a person who has a good level of academic German to read
through the relevant literature, and probably knowledge of other
languages
to track down the different sources that build upon the metaphor.
(4) As Alonzo Harris says in the movie "Training Day" it's not what
you know but what you can prove that matters. Did Freud come up with
the iceberg metaphor of mind? Probably not. Did Freud learn about the
iceberg metaphor from others like Fechner, Herbart, etc.? Possibly but
the evidence for this point has yet to be established. So, we have some
idea of what to do but probably not the resources. We know but cannot
prove. Someone with the right skills and resources should be able to do
the job.
-Mike Palij
New York University
[email protected]
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