I disagree - DSA is not an example of this.

DSA doesn't have a "failure probability", instead, it uses "rejection sampling" 
to generate the signature (just like ML-DSA does) - it's just that, in the DSA 
case and unlike the ML-DSA case, the probability of a sample being rejected is 
extremely tiny.  The DSA signature being generated will always be valid.

________________________________
From: Russ Housley <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2025 4:44 PM
To: Eric Rescorla <[email protected]>
Cc: IETF TLS <[email protected]>
Subject: [TLS] Re: ML-KEM failures

Eric:

I agree.  DSA also had a super small possibility of a signature failing.  If it 
ever happened, one would generate a new k value and try again.  I understand it 
never happened, and peple stopped talking about the failure case...

Russ


On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 9:04 PM Eric Rescorla 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi folks,

I see that the hybrid doc continues to have this text:

Failures. Some post-quantum key exchange algorithms, including ML-KEM 
[NIST-FIPS-203<https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-tls-hybrid-design-16.html#NIST-FIPS-203>],
 have non-zero probability of failure, meaning two honest parties may derive 
different shared secrets. This would cause a handshake failure. ML-KEM has a 
cryptographically small failure rate; if other algorithms are used, 
implementers should be aware of the potential of handshake failure. Clients MAY 
retry if a failure is encountered.

There was extensive discussion about this for the pure ML-KEM draft, and my 
sense was the sentiment was that this should not be discussed, at least for 
ML-KEM. I think we should remove
this whole section.

-Ekr

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