Yes, indeed.  This was a very heated discussion.  Thanks for your leadership.

Russ

> On May 6, 2026, at 9:20 AM, David Benjamin <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Deirdre, Joe, and Sean, for all your hard work in navigating these WG 
> discussions!
> 
> On Wed, May 6, 2026 at 9:09 AM Sean Turner <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> Replying to the original consensus call message.
>> 
>> RFC 2418 Section 3.3 lays out the criteria for “rough consensus”:
>> 
>>    Working groups make decisions through a "rough consensus" process.
>>    IETF consensus does not require that all participants agree although
>>    this is, of course, preferred.  In general, the dominant view of the
>>    working group shall prevail.  (However, it must be noted that
>>    "dominance" is not to be determined on the basis of volume or
>>    persistence, but rather a more general sense of agreement.) Consensus
>>    can be determined by a show of hands, humming, or any other means on
>>    which the WG agrees (by rough consensus, of course).  Note that 51%
>>    of the working group does not qualify as "rough consensus" and 99% is
>>    better than rough.  It is up to the Chair to determine if rough
>>    consensus has been reached.
>> 
>> In this case, during WGLC there was an almost 4:1 ratio for progressing this 
>> draft, which we judge fits within the numeric “more than 51% and less than 
>> 99%” range suggested by this text for “rough consensus” and represents the 
>> “dominant view of the working group”.
>> 
>> In assessing rough consensus, we also considered the nature of the 
>> objections. In reviewing the list traffic, the majority of objections 
>> related to the status of pure MLDSA versus composite MLDSA-ECC, including 
>> (1) we should not publish a pure MLDSA specification at all; (2) we should 
>> recommend composites over pure MLDSA; (3) we should publish the composite 
>> and pure MLDSA specifications concurrently. While there was substantial 
>> disagreement on these points, we believe that the discussion on-list 
>> sufficiently aired the respective points of view and that the right approach 
>> is fundamentally a judgement call based on weighing various technical 
>> factors, which each WG participant needs to make for themselves. We see no 
>> reason to believe that participants were not able to make informed 
>> judgements.
>> 
>> Conclusion: The chairs believe there is consensus to proceed with 
>> publication of this draft as an RFC with Recommended=N for those people that 
>> want to use this algorithm, and a future Standards Action will be needed to 
>> make a change to Recommended=Y, if anyone has the willingness to undergo 
>> this heated discussion again.
>> 
>> For transparency purposes, the chairs note that we received a 
>> complaint/appeal about the consensus call. The message was moderated due to 
>> a previous notice of moderation; see [1], and the complaint/appeal contains 
>> a derivative work notice. As a result, the message was not sent to the mail 
>> list and we will not process the complaint/appeal as-is. If the message is 
>> resubmitted without the notice, the message can be posted to the mail list 
>> and we will process the complaint/appeal.
>> 
>> The Chairs,
>> Deirdre, Joe, and Sean
>> 
>> [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/no0lW8r_wIPGF1ZXWB3EaGywh9Q/
>> 
>>> On Apr 28, 2026, at 16:24, Sean Turner <[email protected] 
>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi! The chairs have judged that there is consensus to progress this I-D. We 
>>> will work with the authors to get a new version submitted and we will get 
>>> to work on the Shepherd Write-Up.
>>> 
>>> The Chairs,
>>> Deirdre, Joe, and Sean
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 9, 2026, at 15:30, Sean Turner <[email protected] 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> This is the working group last call for Use of ML-DSA in TLS 1.3. Please 
>>>> review draft-ietf-tls-mldsa [1] and reply to this thread indicating if you 
>>>> think it is ready for publication or not. If you do not think it is ready 
>>>> please indicate why. This call will end on April 23, 2026.
>>>> 
>>>> REMINDER: If you have not done so recently, review the TLS WG's Mail List 
>>>> Procedures; see [2].
>>>> 
>>>> The Chairs,
>>>> Deirdre, Joe, and Sean
>>>> 
>>>> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tls-mldsa/
>>>> [2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/ucdImHExlbOf4Q3BCG81gjzi2xE/
>>> 
>> 
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