Hello,

I've read the short L20n tutorial "L20n by example":

http://l20n.org/learn

out of curiosity and have two questions to the use of plural macros:


1st question:

In chapter 11 of the tutorial, last paragraph, last sentence:

http://l20n.org/learn/plural-forms-introduction-to-macros/

you write:

"Notice that we're defining a two-value index: first we choose the
plural variant, then we look at the gender and choose the final
translation based on that."

It isn't about noun plural here but about the plural of a special verbal
form, the so-called ł-form which is used to build compund verbal forms,
especially compound tenses.

In Upper and Lower Sorbian you have three numbers: singular, dual and
plural. In singular, there are three genders: masculine, feminine and
neuter. In dual and plural there is no difference between genders but
there is a special category inside of the masculine gender: the
masculine personality. Forms of masculine personality are used related
to subjects of sentences that denote male persons. Male personality
exists in Upper Sorbian only, not in Lower Sorbian.

The ł-form of, for instance, the verb pić "drink" is:

one:

masculine: pił
feminine: piła
neuter: piło

two:

piłoj

few:

pili
piłe

many/other:

piło


Following issue: You see that there are two forms for few: But they
don't differ by gender but by personality resp. impersonality. In modern
Upper Sorbian the standard form is "pili" - it has been originally used
for male persons only, for all other subjects, so masculine objects,
male animals, feminine and neuter nouns the form piłe was used. The
latter form is becoming obsolete but can be optionally used. But
nevertheless: Is it possible to distinguish personality/impoersonality
instead of gender in l20n? I saw that there is a value "unknown" for
gender. Can this value be "abused" to express personality?

2nd question:

It is about personality as well. With nouns, personality/impersonality
exists as well: Personal forms exist for male persons in nominative and
accusative dual and plural only. Besides there is the category animacy
resp. animated gender - animated subjects have the ending of the
genitive in accusative, inanimated subjects the ending of the
nominative. Animated gender exists in singular only.


Examples:

Male personality - nan "father"

singular:

nominative: nan
genitive: nana
accusative: nana

dual:

nominative: nanaj
genitive: nanow
accusative nanow

plural:

nominative: nanojo (= -ojo is a special ending for male persons)
genitive: nanow
accusative: nanow


Animated - law "lion":

singular:

nominative: law
genitive: lawa
accusative: lawa

dual:

nominative: lawaj
genitive: lawow
accusative: lawaj

plural:

nominative: lawy
genitive: lawow
accusative: lawy


Inanimated - dub "oak"

singular:

nominative: dub
genitive: duba
accusative: dub

dual:

nominative: dubaj
genitive: dubow
accusative: dubaj

plural:

nominative: duby
genitive: dubow
accussative: duby


How can these two categories be treated in l20n? I hope you are not too
confused now. :-)


thanks and kind regards,

Michael



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