Jt65 is the way to go Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 6, 2019, at 9:00 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > Send Topband mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: 160 (Mark K3MSB) > 2. Re: 160 ([email protected]) > 3. History of DXing, was Re: 160 ([email protected]) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 17:56:34 -0400 > From: Mark K3MSB <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Topband: 160 > Message-ID: > <CABdVoaCg3FQfuAPmzPEN=RMR+C1yK0iNzT=uhnm3cfna45r...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Semi-Interesting post, but not really applicable to the issue at hand. > >>> To me, the guys who really have a beef are the guys from after WW2 until > the computer era > > I have 4 patents in software engineering. I've been doing software since > about 1978 when I worked as a research assistant in my undergrad years. > I'd be delighted to put my experience in software engineering and computers > next to yours or anyone else's on this list, but I'm pretty sure it's > quite beyond the button-monkey level of knowledge required to use FT-8. > >>> Hank Aaron didn't devalue Babe Ruth. > > No he didn't, but I suspect he tried VERY hard to beat his record. Both > Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron used a bat, ball, and gloves. That was a pretty > level playing field. Perhaps one day we'll have robot ball players > mixed in with humans. Do yo think that will fly? Of course, closer to > home, we're now seeing where transgender issues are effecting competitive > sports. Competition needs to be equal, and there's nothing to prevent > different levels of competition, but equality and fairness must exist > within the same level. > > As I mentioned in a related post while I was /HH6 in May, my FT-8 oriented > friend initiated an FT-8 sequence, went to the bathroom, and after coming > out pointed out he made a QSO while in the bathroom. He specifically did > that to show me it could be done. And FT-8 people want respect for > that? Sorry Charlie, not from me. > > Mark K3MSB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 11:36 AM <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> "The dogs bark, but the caravan rolls on" -ancient proverb >> >> As I understand it, some of this discussion is based on the romantic idea >> that we old timers had it tough but today it's all easy and without real >> challenge. This charge is nothing new, so a little history might be in >> order. The history of Ham Radio since the advent of the home computer has >> been the gradual replacement of operator intervention with computer >> initiatives in our operating activities. Let's look at some. >> >> FT8: >> Is ultimately just another digital mode, the only real difference is that >> more of the automation is built in from the start. But, in principal, any >> of the digital modes (indeed any mode at all) can be made as automated as >> one desires these days. For those under 45 (hi hi), to operate RTTY back in >> the day required a thing called a Terminal Unit to translate the mark/space >> signals to voltage levels to feed a Teletype machine (which was basically a >> big, noisy, heavy duty typewriter). But that hasn't been the reality for >> RTTY for a long time. RTTY is now as easy as downloading a program, only >> marginally more difficult than operating FT8. After all, the packet cluster >> can give you the who and where and the program tunes your radio to the >> proper frequency. You press "send" until you get a reply (if you are >> working a rare DX counter operating split there can be some more to it) and >> the computer logs it after you make the contact and can even send the >> logging in to LOTW for credit. >> >> DXing: >> Originally required hours and hours in front of the radio, tuning and >> looking for the DX. Now there were things like DX nets, and >> newsletters/bulletins and the like to help a bit and DXpeditions were >> publicised in magazines and word of mouth. But with the advent of the >> computer and packet radio, all that changed. Decades ago, a friend of mine >> developed a computer program to track your DX totals and generate mailing >> labels for the QSL's. He interfaced that with the Packet and when a new >> coun... err... entity came on the air, his computer would send "DX" (in CW, >> of course) and he could walk back to the shack, work the counter and go >> back to the ball game. Quite a culture shock for the guys still tuning >> around on their National HRO's. Now the DX cluster is an entrenched reality >> along with Skimmer etc. No sitting in front of the rig necessary. And >> QSLing in the day was a royal PITA, now you just print out the labels and >> download the LOTW credits. >> >> Contesting: >> There is a film (now video, produced by a NFL films dude!) from decades >> ago on YouTube that shows the DX contest from the perspective of a bunch of >> the Frankford Radio Club participants. Again, if you are not over 45 it may >> be a bit of a mystery what's going on. There is no Packet cluster, so DX >> callouts happened on 2m FM! And you will see lots of paper. They are Log >> Sheets (where you wrote down your contacts) and Cross Check sheets (where >> you kept track of you contacts by listing them alphabetically so you >> wouldn't work too many duplicate contacts). After the contest, you would >> have to "redupe" your log to try and catch dupes that got past in the heat >> of battle, this would take a week or two of intermittent effort. And a >> fabulous talent for a contester to have was a good level of call recall (hi >> hi), the more guys you rememberd you worked the less you had to refer to >> the Cross Check sheet. Of course, all this is gone, replaced by our >> computer running a program like N1MM (or CT in th >> e olden times). >> >> I could go on (but mercifully won't), the point is that this is all part >> of a natural progression, an inevitable part of human innovation. To me, >> the guys who really have a beef are the guys from after WW2 until the >> computer era. You could argue that we have devalued their accomplishments >> (you can also argue they had more fun, but that's another post). But I >> would argue that everyone's accomplishments stand on their own according to >> their time, circumstances and operating preferences. Hank Aaron didn't >> devalue Babe Ruth. I would also argue that the world keeps turning and the >> caravan is inexorable... >> >> 73, Kevin K3OX >> >> _________________ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 22:30:09 -0400 (EDT) > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Topband: 160 > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I was shooting for somewhat interesting, so it's nice to hear that I made it > all the way to semi-interesting! > > Mark, I am not sure why you felt compelled to defend your software expertise, > but I don't think anyone intended to demean you in any way. If it came off > that way, I apologize. > > Now I have worked new countries on RTTY with my IC-7300 untethered to a > computer. All it took was a) tune to the frequency of the DX cluster callout > b) push message buttons until I worked the station c) Log it. So someone with > your level of expertise surely would agree that that process with todays > technology could be reduced to one button push. > > Further, since our computers can tune our radios, access DX cluster callouts, > operate skimmer for more stations, decode any digital mode (and for that > matter, CW and through voice recognition, SSB), switch our antennas, turn our > rotors, access our DXCC records, interface with propagation software and real > time solar indices, log the contacts, send the results to LOTW and print > labels for QSL's, in principal, the station can be automated to any degree > the software designer desires and has the chops to implement. > > Not to say that would be more fun. In fact, when computer contest logging > came along I wasn't a big fan. But the world went on and now hardly anyone > would (gulp) PAPER LOG! I would rather work CW, but I will work SSB and FT8 > when it suits me. > > Now regarding your baseball comment I feel on more solid ground. The game of > baseball in Ruth's and Aaron's day was almost night and day different. In > fact, Ruth had to play most of his games in the daytime summer heat, Aaron > played most of his games at night for most of his career. And Ruth didn't > have to face any Afro-American pitchers no matter how good they were (for > obvious reasons). In Aaron's day, the balls were tighter and more > consistently manufactured, the gloves larger (improving defensive efficiency) > and the bats had thinner handles (allowing higher bat speeds). In addition, > the fields were better maintained (and in some cases, had artificial turf) > and the era of dedicated relief pitchers had arrived (in Ruth's day, relief > pitchers were generally washed up starters only used in desperation). I could > go on, but no one seriously interested thinks you can directly compare the > records of players in different eras. And a large contributor to this was > technology, like the cha ng > es in Ham Radio are. > > As far as your Bathroom comment, I have known guys who could do that while > working a CW contest with the addition of a low-tech cup, hi hi. > > 73, Kevin K3OX > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark K3MSB <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Sent: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 17:56:34 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Re: Topband: 160 > > Semi-Interesting post, but not really applicable to the issue at hand. >>> > To me, the guys who really have a beef are the guys from after WW2 until the > computer era > > I have 4 patents in software engineering. I've been doing software since > about 1978 when I worked as a research assistant in my undergrad years. I'd > be delighted to put my experience in software engineering and computers next > to yours or anyone else's on this list, but I'm pretty sure it's quite > beyond the button-monkey level of knowledge required to use FT-8. >>> > Hank Aaron didn't devalue Babe Ruth. > No he didn't, but I suspect he tried VERY hard to beat his record. Both > Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron used a bat, ball, and gloves. That was a pretty > level playing field. Perhaps one day we'll have robot ball players mixed > in with humans. Do yo think that will fly? Of course, closer to home, > we're now seeing where transgender issues are effecting competitive sports. > Competition needs to be equal, and there's nothing to prevent different > levels of competition, but equality and fairness must exist within the same > level. > As I mentioned in a related post while I was /HH6 in May, my FT-8 oriented > friend initiated an FT-8 sequence, went to the bathroom, and after coming > out pointed out he made a QSO while in the bathroom. He specifically did > that to show me it could be done. And FT-8 people want respect for that? > Sorry Charlie, not from me. > > Mark K3MSB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 11:36 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > > > "The dogs bark, but the caravan rolls on" -ancient proverb > > > As I understand it, some of this discussion is based on the romantic idea > that we old timers had it tough but today it's all easy and without real > challenge. This charge is nothing new, so a little history might be in order. > The history of Ham Radio since the advent of the home computer has been the > gradual replacement of operator intervention with computer initiatives in our > operating activities. Let's look at some. > > > FT8: > > Is ultimately just another digital mode, the only real difference is that > more of the automation is built in from the start. But, in principal, any of > the digital modes (indeed any mode at all) can be made as automated as one > desires these days. For those under 45 (hi hi), to operate RTTY back in the > day required a thing called a Terminal Unit to translate the mark/space > signals to voltage levels to feed a Teletype machine (which was basically a > big, noisy, heavy duty typewriter). But that hasn't been the reality for RTTY > for a long time. RTTY is now as easy as downloading a program, only > marginally more difficult than operating FT8. After all, the packet cluster > can give you the who and where and the program tunes your radio to the proper > frequency. You press "send" until you get a reply (if you are working a rare > DX counter operating split there can be some more to it) and the computer > logs it after you make the contact and can even send the logging in to LOTW > for credit. > > > DXing: > > Originally required hours and hours in front of the radio, tuning and looking > for the DX. Now there were things like DX nets, and newsletters/bulletins and > the like to help a bit and DXpeditions were publicised in magazines and word > of mouth. But with the advent of the computer and packet radio, all that > changed. Decades ago, a friend of mine developed a computer program to track > your DX totals and generate mailing labels for the QSL's. He interfaced that > with the Packet and when a new coun... err... entity came on the air, his > computer would send "DX" (in CW, of course) and he could walk back to the > shack, work the counter and go back to the ball game. Quite a culture shock > for the guys still tuning around on their National HRO's. Now the DX cluster > is an entrenched reality along with Skimmer etc. No sitting in front of the > rig necessary. And QSLing in the day was a royal PITA, now you just print out > the labels and download the LOTW credits. > > > Contesting: > > There is a film (now video, produced by a NFL films dude!) from decades ago > on YouTube that shows the DX contest from the perspective of a bunch of the > Frankford Radio Club participants. Again, if you are not over 45 it may be a > bit of a mystery what's going on. There is no Packet cluster, so DX callouts > happened on 2m FM! And you will see lots of paper. They are Log Sheets (where > you wrote down your contacts) and Cross Check sheets (where you kept track of > you contacts by listing them alphabetically so you wouldn't work too many > duplicate contacts). After the contest, you would have to "redupe" your log > to try and catch dupes that got past in the heat of battle, this would take a > week or two of intermittent effort. And a fabulous talent for a contester to > have was a good level of call recall (hi hi), the more guys you rememberd you > worked the less you had to refer to the Cross Check sheet. Of course, all > this is gone, replaced by our computer running a program like N1MM (or CT in th > > e olden times). > > > I could go on (but mercifully won't), the point is that this is all part of a > natural progression, an inevitable part of human innovation. To me, the guys > who really have a beef are the guys from after WW2 until the computer era. > You could argue that we have devalued their accomplishments (you can also > argue they had more fun, but that's another post). But I would argue that > everyone's accomplishments stand on their own according to their time, > circumstances and operating preferences. Hank Aaron didn't devalue Babe Ruth. > I would also argue that the world keeps turning and the caravan is > inexorable... > > > 73, Kevin K3OX > > > _________________ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 22:55:38 -0400 (EDT) > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Topband: History of DXing, was Re: 160 > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > To me, the guys who really have a beef are the guys from after WW2 until the > computer era. > > BTW, to give you an idea what I mean, I can most highly recommend the book > W6AM, Amateur Radio's Pioneer. It's a fascinating book about an interesting > and determined man and a legend in the annals of DXing, Don Wallace, who died > in 1985. If you are interested in DXing and history (or the history of > DXing), this is a must read. > > 73, Kevin K3OX > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Topband mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Topband Digest, Vol 200, Issue 16 > **************************************** _________________ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
