Matching an inverted L using a single shunt coin (Hairpin) Also gives you a DC path to ground. No capacitors needed. https://www.arraysolutions.com/pdfs/Tuning_160m_Vertical.pdf Regards to the group Jay, WX0B
Jay Terleski Array Solutions 214 954 7140 On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 11:00 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > Send Topband mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: INV L matching (Tom | SP5XO) > 2. 2 wire reversible Beverage (Fred Moeves) > 3. Re: FT8 (W0MU Mike Fatchett) > 4. Re: INV L matching (Richard (Rick) Karlquist) > 5. 160m VA1RST (Andree DL8LAS) > 6. Re: 2 wire reversible Beverage (List Mail) > 7. 160m Vertical (Ron WV4P) > 8. Re: 160m Vertical (Tree) > 9. Re: 160m Vertical (Joe) > 10. Re: 160m Vertical ([email protected]) > 11. Re: 160m Vertical (Tree) > 12. Re: 160m Vertical (Ken Claerbout) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 18:26:05 +0200 > From: "Tom | SP5XO" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Topband: INV L matching > Message-ID: > <CAGw23xKhP+= > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Hello OMs Topbbanders > As I'm planning to put up inverted L antenna for next season i will face > the matching vs bandwidth struggle I know there is a cure for short > vertical section and low impedance (with reasonable radial system) and I > already tested some extended horizontal section and matching capacitor in > the feeedpoint > > However i was considering some other impedance matching methods and came > across DK7ZB matching transformers. For example to get good match for 28Ohm > yagi there is 1/4 wave 75Ohm parallel feedlines transformer used with good, > wideband match. Since short vertical inv L over reasonable ground should > have roughly 20 OHm impedance that could work here as well. > > Sure it is 2 x quarter wave 75 OHM coax (shortened by VF) but is there any > wideband "gain" for such feeding method? It would be still easier than > switching remotely some caps each 10kHz or something. > > Is there anybody who tried this one? > Thanks > Tom > sp5xo > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 17:29:32 -0400 > From: Fred Moeves <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Topband: 2 wire reversible Beverage > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Hello everyone, > > I'm trying to figure out how to wind the transformers for the 2 wire > Beverage. > I have ordered some WD1A wire and will be trying to use that. > > I posted this on Topband maybe 2 weeks ago and got some suggestions on > and off the reflector. > > One question I have is how to read the resistance of the wire...without > the xfmrs? The wire to ground? > I do have a Zoom analyser. > > I have wired the more simple transformers for a plain Beverage but never > the center tapped xfmrs...I think I know how to wind them but not sure. > > On the xfmrs that are center tapped is that the reason for the bifillar > wire? > > Or do you wind the xfmrs? on the center tapped side with one wire and > just leave a little sticking out to pickup the center? > > I like to home brew what I can and try to learn something in the process. > > Anyway hope this makes sense ? > > 73 > > Fred KB4QZH > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 16:29:28 -0600 > From: W0MU Mike Fatchett <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Topband: FT8 > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > It is just another FT8 bashing post.? It is why we had to create another > list.? I just set up a new filter so I won't be bothered by trolls. > > W0MU > > On 5/13/2020 1:03 PM, Ross Johnson wrote: > > Roger your lack understanding surprises me , and others here. > > > > Like your station mine only hears what it hears. Ft8 users are not all > > connected via the net. > > > > So its interesting to see on cluster wot other ZLs are hearing or > > working. > > > > I seldom post but some have an ego issue I suspect. > > > > And there is no auto posting to clusters , however my station sends > > info to PSK reporter . > > > > > > Ross?? ZL3RJ > > _________________ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 20:35:19 -0700 > From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <[email protected]> > To: Tom | SP5XO <[email protected]>, [email protected] > Subject: Re: Topband: INV L matching > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > > On 5/14/2020 9:26 AM, Tom | SP5XO wrote: > >d, > > wideband match. Since short vertical inv L over reasonable ground should > > have roughly 20 OHm impedance that could work here as well. > > The matching network that will maximize bandwidth > is an autotransformer wound on a 2.4 inch diameter > ferrite core. For example, a transformer with a > 3:2 turns ratio will transform 50 ohms to 22.2 ohms. > I use a homebrew autotransformer on my 90 foot > vertical which has around 25 ohms drive impedance. > See Jerry Sevick's book on RF transformers for > info on "un-uns". > > Rick N6RK > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 05:34:39 +0000 (UTC) > From: Andree DL8LAS <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Topband: 160m VA1RST > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hey,today worked VA1RST Roger again witha very nice signal.The QSO is on > a short clip on youtube. > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwggxPyz5On3ounTLNnr1lw > > > 73 Andy DL8LAS > www.dl8las.com > www.swing-company-bigband.de/ > www.uni-big-band-kiel.de/ > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 18:34:10 +1000 > From: "List Mail" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Topband: 2 wire reversible Beverage > Message-ID: <B8AB17C57D084E569E597C366A7F4921@LukeNetbook> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type=response > > I followed the instructions on the W0BTU website, which gave me all the > information I needed to set up three, two-wire Beverages here. > > I found the easiest wire to work with for the baluns is what I stripped > out > of two-pair indoor telephone wire. It has four colours PVC insulation on > thin solid copper wire, so there is no issue identifying which winding is > which! The advantage of the thin PVC insulated wire is both ease of > identification and little risk of nicking the insulation as it passes > through the (conductive) ferrite cores. > > For the Beverage wires, I used 3.0 mm heavy galvanised high-tensile steel > fencing wire. A 1500 m (nearly a mile) coil plus a bit did the job. > Spacing > is about 40 mm (about 1.5"). All the hardware is electric fence stuff, I > bought at the local (rural) hardware store. > > 73, > > Luke VK3HJ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Moeves > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 7:29 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Topband: 2 wire reversible Beverage > > Hello everyone, > > I'm trying to figure out how to wind the transformers for the 2 wire > Beverage. > I have ordered some WD1A wire and will be trying to use that. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 10:14:32 -0500 > From: Ron WV4P <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Topband: 160m Vertical > Message-ID: > <CAPQMqnfxc9XPVmE68w8OZtM6rZxy5Cr61U=_ > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from 115' > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting.... But > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or Short > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) > > Thanks in advance, > Ron WV4P > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 08:18:39 -0700 > From: Tree <[email protected]> > To: Ron WV4P <[email protected]> > Cc: 160 <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical > Message-ID: > < > cakf9hhb4iknhprea+5ti0treypjhj70rrrpir55_xvne3ts...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the > difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor - > but it's typically more trouble than the inductor. > > Tree N6TR > > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna > > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from > 115' > > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. > > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my > > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting.... But > > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, > > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized > > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or > Short > > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Ron WV4P > > _________________ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 10:21:10 -0500 > From: Joe <[email protected]> > To: Tree <[email protected]>, Ron WV4P <[email protected]> > Cc: 160 <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Myself I like longer, > > Yes gotta use a cap, But not too big a deal, I find more variable caps > at hamfests than roller inductors. > > PLUS, longer raises the natural impedance too closer to 50 ohms. Of > course NOT 50 but higher than 1/4 wave resistance. > > Joe WB9SBD > Sig > The Original Rolling Ball Clock > Idle Tyme > Idle-Tyme.com > http://www.idle-tyme.com > On 5/15/2020 10:18 AM, Tree wrote: > > Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the > > difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor - > > but it's typically more trouble than the inductor. > > > > Tree N6TR > > > > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna > >> will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from > 115' > >> - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. > >> I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my > >> research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting.... But > >> the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, > >> perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized > >> inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or > Short > >> ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) > >> > >> Thanks in advance, > >> Ron WV4P > >> _________________ > >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > >> Reflector > >> > > _________________ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 11:27:49 -0400 (EDT) > From: [email protected] > To: 160 <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > Hi Ron, > > > > A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax > cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband. > > > How high up the band do you want to go and at what maximum VSWR? > > > A resonant Rohn 25 160M vertical will be about 124 feet tall for > resonance around 1820 kHz > > If for some reason you must install a tuner at the feed point of the > vertical, follow Tree's advice and make it slightly short: 120 feet > of 115 ft if you need to tune for minimum VSWR above 1900 kHz. > > > > Use a small tapped inductor to tune it around the band. > > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tree" <[email protected]> > To: "Ron WV4P" <[email protected]> > Cc: "160" <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:18:39 PM > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical > > Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the > difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor - > but it's typically more trouble than the inductor. > > Tree N6TR > > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna > > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from > 115' > > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. > > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my > > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting.... But > > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, > > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized > > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or > Short > > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Ron WV4P > > _________________ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > _________________ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 08:34:23 -0700 > From: Tree <[email protected]> > To: Frank Donovan <[email protected]> > Cc: 160 <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical > Message-ID: > <CAKF9HhYTfz4KC=K1vOuz= > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > One approach for the inductor that I have used when doing parasitic element > tuning is to put two SO239's in series and either put a shorted plug in for > no added inductance - or a PL259 fashioned with a few turns of heavy gauge > wire. You can label them for the frequency you are wanting. > > I used that technique to go from a director to a reflector back when I was > playing with a vertical parasitic array on 160. > > Tree N6TR > > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:28 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi Ron, > > > > > > > > A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax > > cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband. > > > > > > How high up the band do you want to go and at what maximum VSWR? > > > > > > A resonant Rohn 25 160M vertical will be about 124 feet tall for > > resonance around 1820 kHz > > > > If for some reason you must install a tuner at the feed point of the > > vertical, follow Tree's advice and make it slightly short: 120 feet > > of 115 ft if you need to tune for minimum VSWR above 1900 kHz. > > > > > > > > Use a small tapped inductor to tune it around the band. > > > > > > 73 > > Frank > > W3LPL > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Tree" <[email protected]> > > To: "Ron WV4P" <[email protected]> > > Cc: "160" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:18:39 PM > > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical > > > > Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the > > difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor - > > but it's typically more trouble than the inductor. > > > > Tree N6TR > > > > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna > > > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from > > 115' > > > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. > > > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my > > > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting.... > But > > > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, > > > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized > > > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or > > Short > > > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > Ron WV4P > > > _________________ > > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > > Reflector > > > > > _________________ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > > _________________ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 11:52:01 -0400 > From: Ken Claerbout <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical > Message-ID: > <CAML5bQOabcHNGfEQPdst8nL2qmOOjhr1Q-= > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I would favor using an inductor. Tune it for the lowest part of the > band. Then using a relay or two, you can short out turns if you want > to move higher in the band. Although I think you will find using Rohn > 25, it will be pretty broad. > > 73 > Ken K4ZW > > > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 11:28 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ron, > > > > > > > > A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax > > cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband. > > > > > > How high up the band do you want to go and at what maximum VSWR? > > > > > > A resonant Rohn 25 160M vertical will be about 124 feet tall for > > resonance around 1820 kHz > > > > If for some reason you must install a tuner at the feed point of the > > vertical, follow Tree's advice and make it slightly short: 120 feet > > of 115 ft if you need to tune for minimum VSWR above 1900 kHz. > > > > > > > > Use a small tapped inductor to tune it around the band. > > > > > > 73 > > Frank > > W3LPL > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Tree" <[email protected]> > > To: "Ron WV4P" <[email protected]> > > Cc: "160" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:18:39 PM > > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical > > > > Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the > > difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor - > > but it's typically more trouble than the inductor. > > > > Tree N6TR > > > > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna > > > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from > 115' > > > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. > > > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my > > > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting.... > But > > > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, > > > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized > > > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or > Short > > > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > Ron WV4P > > > _________________ > > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > > Reflector > > > > > _________________ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > > > _________________ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Topband mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Topband Digest, Vol 209, Issue 14 > **************************************** > _________________ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
