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-----Original Message----- From: Holger Knublauch [hol...@topquadrant.com] Received: zaterdag, 19 jan. 2019, 1:47 To: topbraid-users@googlegroups.com [topbraid-users@googlegroups.com] Subject: Re: [topbraid-users] shacl import? On 18/01/2019 9:18 pm, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite Users wrote: So I understand: for name spaces/deref. all fine but issue is more on (recursive) import/localfile reuse. Just one step back: why is shacl doing things special (so far I never saw # in imports, well maybe we had the issue discussed earlier when I was surprised to see just the prefix at import (which of course is only poss. when you import with #). This topic was discussed in the W3C WG and a formal vote was held to decide to add the '#'. I was not in favor then because I believe this pattern is rarer, but in the end it's an arbitrary decision and the # does have the advantage that the namespace is the same as the graph URI, which means it can be addressed as "sh:" Holger When making a modelling guide for starting modellers I don’t want to bother them with many options and under the hood issues, pref. just the one best practice so with or without # in imports. thx Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms Senior Data Scientist T +31888663107 M +31630381220 E michel.bo...@tno.nl<mailto:michel.bo...@tno.nl> Location<https://www.google.com/maps/place/TNO+-+Locatie+Delft+-+Stieltjesweg/@52.000788,4.3745183,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47c5b58c52869997:0x56681566be3b8c88!8m2!3d52.000788!4d4.376707> [cid:part3.35D7A5D7.705E195B@topquadrant.com]<http://www.tno.nl/> This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the electronic transmission of messages. From: topbraid-users@googlegroups.com<mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> <topbraid-users@googlegroups.com><mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Holger Knublauch Sent: vrijdag 18 januari 2019 01:08 To: topbraid-users@googlegroups.com<mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [topbraid-users] shacl import? On 18/01/2019 7:15 am, Rob Atkinson wrote: its an area where URIs are not "opaque" - because when dereferencing a server never sees the # or trailing fragments after that. If you use a # in your URI you are saying that architecturally a client must always load the entire namespace when referencing a single term - which is appropriate for models but not instance data usually. clients need the ability to choose how many instances they are dealing with, and some other mechanism should be provided to access lists of instances. Arguably TBC should fully simulate HTTP dereferencing - and be willing to match with or without trailing # ? TopBraid will have no problems resolving either with or without # from the web, but if you have owl:imports in an RDF model then the interpretation should IMHO be that it refers to the URI (usually an owl:Ontology) in that location to resolve further recursive owl:imports. In other words, if you have a union graph with all sub-graphs, you can use the SPARQL path owl:imports* to find all imported sub-graphs. That's also how SHACL interprets them. Just pretending they are the same is creating complications wherever such references (in the RDF model) are followed, e.g. you'd need to make SPARQL queries look for either case too. For this reason, the mapping of URIs to local files only accepts exact matches. Holger On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 at 19:38, Holger Knublauch <hol...@topquadrant.com<mailto:hol...@topquadrant.com>> wrote: Using # or not does/can impact how further owl:imports are understood. So if shacl# had an owl:import and you just import without the # then the owl:import would not be picked up because it's a different owl:Ontology. This is one of these never-ending topics where the semantic web stack is unfortunately too complex and almost everybody gets this wrong. Holger On 17/01/2019 6:32 pm, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite Users wrote: Ok Is there any special reason why the ‘importing with #’ is different from usual (without #, # only in prefix)? Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms Senior Data Scientist T +31888663107 M +31630381220 E michel.bo...@tno.nl<mailto:michel.bo...@tno.nl> Location<https://www.google.com/maps/place/TNO+-+Locatie+Delft+-+Stieltjesweg/@52.000788,4.3745183,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47c5b58c52869997:0x56681566be3b8c88!8m2!3d52.000788!4d4.376707> [cid:part3.35D7A5D7.705E195B@topquadrant.com]<http://www.tno.nl/> This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the electronic transmission of messages. From: topbraid-users@googlegroups.com<mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> <topbraid-users@googlegroups.com><mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Holger Knublauch Sent: donderdag 17 januari 2019 09:30 To: topbraid-users@googlegroups.com<mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [topbraid-users] shacl import? Only importing will add the triples from that namespace. Simply using the URIs does not. Holger Sent from my iPad On 17 Jan 2019, at 18:26, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite Users <topbraid-users@googlegroups.com<mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com>> wrote: Ok But when it is deref. that way… why still need to import it (at all)? Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms Senior Data Scientist T +31888663107 M +31630381220 E michel.bo...@tno.nl<mailto:michel.bo...@tno.nl> Location<https://www.google.com/maps/place/TNO+-+Locatie+Delft+-+Stieltjesweg/@52.000788,4.3745183,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47c5b58c52869997:0x56681566be3b8c88!8m2!3d52.000788!4d4.376707> <image001.gif><http://www.tno.nl/> This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the electronic transmission of messages. From: topbraid-users@googlegroups.com<mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> <topbraid-users@googlegroups.com<mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Holger Knublauch Sent: donderdag 17 januari 2019 00:05 To: topbraid-users@googlegroups.com<mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [topbraid-users] shacl import? The correct URI to import is http://www.w3.org/ns/shacl#<http://www.w3.org/ns/shacl> (including the #) and this should be dereferenceable. In TopBraid, this will redirect to the local copy in the TopBraid/SHACL/shacl.ttl file. Holger On 16/01/2019 10:34 pm, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite Users wrote: Can someone help me remember: Do I need <https://w3id.org/example1><https://w3id.org/example1> rdf:type owl:Ontology ; owl:imports dct: ; owl:imports <http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core><http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core> ; owl:imports <http://www.w3.org/ns/shacl><http://www.w3.org/ns/shacl> . or is it dereferenceable thx a lot, Michel Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms Senior Data Scientist T +31888663107 M +31630381220 E michel.bo...@tno.nl<mailto:michel.bo...@tno.nl> Location<https://www.google.com/maps/place/TNO+-+Locatie+Delft+-+Stieltjesweg/@52.000788,4.3745183,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47c5b58c52869997:0x56681566be3b8c88!8m2!3d52.000788!4d4.376707> <image001.gif><http://www.tno.nl/> This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. 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