Let me add that the current working draft of SHACL-AF is
https://w3c.github.io/shacl/shacl-af/
which in particular has the sh:values feature that many people find useful.
While I would love to see this with an official W3C approval stamp,
getting there would take a lot of time. Making it a de-facto standard
support by the SHACL Community Group would be a more feasible route.
Turning this into an official spec would require convincing W3C that
another inferencing standard is needed, and, if past experience is any
guidance, this would lead to a situation where competing existing
standards will try to veto this process, or completely different groups
suddenly join with the goal of evolving this into something completely
different, possibly not even based on SHACL. And no, sorry, it is
unlikely that we would want to spend resources on such a thing. Two more
years of endless discussions, no thanks. SHACL-AF solves enough business
problems for us as is.
Holger
On 4/04/2020 01:49, Irene Polikoff wrote:
I would tell clients the following:
It is nice to have standards, but the bottom line is “do you need the
capabilities of SHACL AF”? If the answer is “Yes”, then use them.
People use things that are non standard or de-facto standards all the
time - if they are needed and important. And vice versa. There are
de-jure standards that die because they were ill conceived and no one
uses them. For example, GRDL (and RIF).
It is also not (at all) a one way street. Quite on contrary. The more
people use SHACL AF, the more likely it is that it will become a
Recommendation. W3C is trying to avoid situations where a spec is
taken to Recommendation status and then no one uses it. The current
policy is to follow the use. If your customers want to see AF move
from the Working Group Note status to Recommendation, the best way to
ensure that this happens is to use them.
If the question is about RIF, it is a red herring. RIF was pretty much
dead on arrival.
On Apr 3, 2020, at 10:49 AM, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid
Suite Users <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
All clear but then....
What do I tell my clients?
“Small change at this moment that SHACL AF will soon get more status”?
Or can I have a more positive message?
(guess you know the actions and intentions in the current community
group)
Thx Michel
Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms
Senior Data Scientist
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*Van:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>*Namens*Irene Polikoff
*Verzonden:*Friday, April 3, 2020 3:18 PM
*Aan:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Onderwerp:*Re: [topbraid-users] general shacl question
Any W3C member can lobby W3C for starting a working group that will
take something to recommendation level. In fact, you do not even need
to be a member to provide evidence of the need, but only members can
participate in a working group and member voting could block starting
a working group.
So this has to do with the amount of community interest and involvement.
If there is ever to be SHACL 2.0 working group, it is likely that it
will take on the advanced features. Will there be one? Again, depends
on the general needs of the community.
A working group process requires a lot of effort, commitment and
investment. There must be companies that are willing and able to
sustain it.
In the meantime, community group offers a lighter process and AF note
was already updated through the community group vehicle.
On Apr 3, 2020, at 8:57 AM, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite
Users <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Clients are asking me: what is the status of SHACL AF?
They see a work group note from summer 2017 and ask why isn’t it
evolving in a proposed recommendation etc.
Is this related to potential other ideas like RIF recommendation
that might be considered in this process?
Thx for any news on this,
Michel
Ps got also similar questions on your dash stuff
(http://datashapes.org/constraints.html)
Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms
Senior Data Scientist
T +31888663107
M +31630381220
E [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Location
<https://www.google.com/maps/place/TNO+-+Locatie+Delft+-+Stieltjesweg/@52.000788,4.3745183,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47c5b58c52869997:0x56681566be3b8c88!8m2!3d52.000788!4d4.376707>
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