Hi holger, david

See all your points.
Wished decomposition was better incorporated in our modelling languages, like 
in uml eg.

Specializing properties like hasEngine is a solution but you loose the actual 
decomposition semantics or you have to assume it in the "has" of "hasX" but 
typically "has" is also used for attributes or nonpart relations.

Anyway, thx for your views
Michel

Op 10 nov. 2023 13:21 schreef David Price <[email protected]>:
Following on from Holger’s comment …

Typical” and “relevance” are not generally supported modeling concepts in 
RDF-land. “possible" and “cardinality" are basically it.

Min 0 just means optional and is therefore ignored by every rdf-based engine I 
know.

I guess in SHACL you could make a property shape that did a SPARQL NOT EXISTS 
and report an sh:Warning or sh:Info rather than a sh:Violation. But users might 
get tired of seeing the warnings repeatedly.

If you need to communicate “typical” to humans, then the documentation is a 
much better place. If I see “min 0” in a data model, I usually assume it’s a 
mistake and so would probably not understand the intent.

Cheers,
David

On 10 Nov 2023, at 12:20, Holger Knublauch <[email protected]> wrote:

In almost all cases that I have seen, qualified value constraints are a pain to 
work with, either in OWL or SHACL. I have no recommendations for them as I 
almost never use them. I would just introduce a property :hasEngine and get rid 
of :hasPart.

Holger


On 10 Nov 2023, at 1:09 pm, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite Users 
<[email protected]> wrote:

Ok, thx

So there is also no better way to model that y and z are typical (can be) parts 
of x where say r and s are not.
Like kind of qualified closure like sh:closed is on property level....
Michel

Op 10 nov. 2023 12:08 schreef Holger Knublauch <[email protected]>:
In both cases the constraint isn't doing any validation at all, so you can 
leave the sh:qualifiedMinCount out, if you only intend to use it to indicate 
relevance.

Holger


On 10 Nov 2023, at 10:23 am, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite Users 
<[email protected]> wrote:

I have a qualified constraint question.

To  define a meronomy (typical hasPart hierarchy) we now use in OWA/OWL:

:Vehicle
  a owl:Class ;
  rdfs:subClassOf [
      a owl:Restriction ;
      owl:minQualifiedCardinality "0"^^xsd:nonNegativeInteger ;
      owl:onClass :Engine ;
      owl:onProperty :hasPart ;
    ] .

We explicitly model this mincard=0 to indicate relevance (it is not an 
obligatory part).
(because we cannot leave the restriction out).

Now my question how does this translate into cwa/shacl?

:VehicleShape
  a sh:NodeShape ;
  sh:targetClass :Vehicle ;
  sh:property [
    sh:path :hasPart ;
    sh:qualifiedMinCount 0 ;
    sh:qualifiedValueShape [
                sh:class :Engine ;
                               ] ;
   sh:qualifiedMinCount 0 ;
.

Or can I delete the red now?

Similar (example not for decomposition):

        sh:property      [ sh:path                 
https://w3id.org/nen2660/def#hasInterior ;
                           sh:qualifiedValueShape  [ sh:class  
https://otl.waternet.nl/def/cff9206f-72ae-4eb8-a671-9c3dd73b62c0 ]
                         ] .

Is it ok to leave minCard/maxCard out?

Personally I guess NOT since I always have to give the actual constraint where 
the valueshape is ‘just’ the context when to be applied, right?

So I put in minCar = 0 again or is there in shape a smarter way to indicate 
this “relevance”?

Thx a lot, Michel



Michel Böhms
Data Scientist

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