Thank you David for your valuable input as always.
The <> seem to have disappeared when copying, they are in the source…..

Thanks again and wishing you a happy and moreover semantic new year!
Michel

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On 
Behalf Of David Price
Sent: vrijdag 29 december 2023 16:53
To: 'Felix Sasaki' via TopBraid Suite Users <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [topbraid-users] "skos+shacl"-only question....

Hi Michel,

As usual, the following are just personal comments - not an agreed TQ 
perspective. Also, I did not do any actual testing of SHACL using this pattern 
to see how it behaves.

Whether this is “right” or not depends a lot on the use case.

If it is purely for data validation, then perhaps - assuming it actually 
behaves as you expect (i.e. produces violations when, and only when, it should).

If they are trying to do “data modelling”, then perhaps not. e.g. skos broader 
transitive does not mean properties are “inherited” in the same way that they 
are with <i> rdf:type <x>  and <x> subClassOf <y>.

If it is meant to drive a model-driven UI, then making Aalgoot a subclass of 
Concept is the preferred approach. It is far harder to go query around every 
node shape to calculate the possible properties to show a user entering data.

As an aside, I cannot imagine when ignoring rdf:type is a good idea in an 
RDF-based use case. Again though, maybe this is a use case that I don’t quite 
understand.

Nit picking … but URIs in SPARQL require < and > so I guess this is not a copy 
and paste of working SHACL?

I imagine this is trying to allow users to create catalogs of “parts” in 
mechanical engineering/building designs, for example, and folks don’t like 
having 30K classes but for some reason 30K concepts is fine. Note that in that 
case you’ll probably want to do some more modeling and have subclasses of 
Concept so users do not have to search thru 30K labels to find the “subject”. 
I’m also sure that not all of the 30K would make sense for a specific instance. 
Of course, if the data is only ever generated via a data translator, for 
example, rather than a human then that concern probably does not matter as much.

Cheers,
David

UK +44 (0) 7788 561308
US +1 (336) 283-0808


On 29 Dec 2023, at 13:22, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite Users 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

I encounter an existing ontology that:

  *   Uses skos for terms
  *   Use shacl for shapes on instances that has a certain skos item as 
dct:subject
  *   No use of rdfs/owl

Like:
    otl-patroon:Aalgoot a sh:NodeShape ;
        sh:closed true ;
        sh:description "Basispatroon voor het vastleggen van Aalgoot"@nl ;
        sh:ignoredProperties ( dct:subject dct:coverage rdf:type bs:hasPart 
otl:isBeschrevenDoor geo:hasGeometry ) ;
        sh:name "Aalgoot"@nl ;
        sh:property otl-patroon:bouwdatum,
            otl-patroon:bouwjaar,
            otl-patroon:discipline-Element,
            otl-patroon:isFaalkanskritisch,
            otl-patroon:omschrijving,
            otl-patroon:theoretischeLevensduur,
            otl-patroon:vervultFaunavoorzieningsfunctie ;
        sh:target [ a sh:SPARQLTarget ;
                sh:select """SELECT ?this WHERE {
                    ?this 
http://purl.org/dc/terms/subjecthttps://data.rws.nl/def/otl/Aalgoot
                }""" ] .

Where:

    otl:Aalgoot a skos:Concept ;
        skos:broaderTransitive nen2660-term:DiscreteObject ;
        skos:definition "Goot waarin een klimsubstraat is aangebracht zoals 
bijvoorbeeld kokosmatten waarover een klein waterstroompje 
loopt."@nl<mailto:%22Goot%20waarin%20een%20klimsubstraat%20is%20aangebracht%20zoals%20bijvoorbeeld%20kokosmatten%20waarover%20een%20klein%20waterstroompje%20loopt.%22@nl>
 ;
        skos:prefLabel "Aalgoot"@nl .


Technically it works (well you can sparql anything…), but is it a right 
approach?

(they use dct:subject for classifying instances towards the skos topic…).

Thx for advice,
Michel




Michel Böhms
Data Scientist

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