> The IP wont' eventually be pulled if it's on rdsnet.ro. ;) Sounds like a great place for a wide open exit.. Hey Moritz.. ;)
>> Some of them even have that as their advertised featureset > utterly incorrect to suggest that .. "permaban .. eventually pulled .. *Unless their profits come from*" *caveat supplied* > small .. run their sites without their servers bogging down under > the groaning load of scrape bots, hack bots and spam bots hammering > day in and out? > dirty IP range Internet background noise is a hard problem too. So many sources, so little time to whack them. I'd be tempted to subscribe to a block service and opt out the Tor IP's as being a moot fraction of that overall noise and perhaps more user centric than bots or corporate. The non-targeted noise load doesn't seem much on the screens here. > you find unfathomable "They" find unfathomable. Tor testing accounts seemed autodeleted only from outside the countries/languages catered to (or perhaps just the profile country). In-country exits did not seem to have a problem. Unlucky out-country IP's, or shortsighted about their mobile global citizenry / using Tor at home? As below, cursory rather than methodical, maybe I'll retest someday. > unnamed dating service The data is old, a retest would be needed. Craigslist's more recent blocking of readers from what really did seem like every exit chanced upon for a week was much more extensive. Unlucky, or Tor? If they weren't so far away I'd visit them to ask. Afaik, posting still doesn't work reliably from Tor, though Torizens can read CL again. We do now have wildcard FQDN MAPADDRESS which will make testing things easier. Just waiting on CIDR MAPADDRESS for completeness. > didn't enquire the reason for the block and moved on Yeah, I admit it's not very methodical or complete testing yet, and contact and follow up are definitely lacking due to time constraints. Actually, and similar to the 'HTTPS Everywhere' and 'Bitcoin.it/Trade' projects, I think there's a good opportunity for a group to get together and start a 'Works With Tor' wiki. Listings for categories of services... news, finance, social, games, IRC, etc. Contact the services if they don't... that sort of thing. - Lot of hot button policy things you mentioned, one last note... We see hands off VPN's, sites, hosts.. in part because, similar to DMCA / common carrier, touching it can often make you liable. It's like shoveling and salting your walk. Don't do it and it's just an 'act of God'. But if you do step in and manage it, and something happens, then you didn't do it properly and you get sued. Similar happened to someone I knew last winter. Huge payout because they washed their car, water froze... and well, you know the rest. I would never trust any dating or social type site, or any online service for that matter, to protect me and my interests [1], regardless of whether it's pay or free, or how much data, checking and exclusion they say they do on other users. They're a business, not psychics. The majority concern and loyalty of business is to money... not to my personal individual real world well being. Look at the Tor website... one of its main, and really great use cases, is right there on the front page, 'Family & Friends... use Tor to protect themselves'. Users are learning about the world and taking independant responsibility for their own well being, in part because companies, governments and people are failing or abusing them. Whether running nodes, bug reporting, or talking with people about Tor, it feels pretty good to be a part of that well being :) Some of the "we're a safe place" marketing, glossing over and user moderation going on out there does seem to create some false sense of security. That causes people's knowledge and natural guard to drop and then exploits to go up as a result. That's a cause for concern. [1] I sorta trust my bank even though little interests paid :) >> When they block users without individual cause, they deny them >> the right to participate in that part of society. > The place where you are going wrong is not understanding *who* > gets to decide on what constitutes individual cause for being > blocked. I don't believe it's right to block potential service users, before they can individually show themselves as spam or ham via some level of site usage, merely for using Tor. Before that point, they are a mixed class carrying the Tor banner. If a site wishes to discriminate against the entire class, that's their thing, we can't stop them, or convince them with mass appeal, for now. We can only try to develop better methods together. Curiously, the EFF suggests that an IP address (perhaps even a telephone) is not a user and vice versa. And some courts have now confirmed that suggestion up against complaints that they are equivalent. How long until the Tor users begin lodging that same suggestion up against services? ;) > Amazon.com blocks people living in states with certain types of > salestax laws That is because it is a matter of law, not whim. > not about "warfare between businesses :)" Blog versus 'hosted commercial seo/scrapers/etc' is essentially b2b. There are no Tor end users in that picture. It is even more off topic than other elements of this subthread :) > being open only 8 hours a day [is] allowed That is because users and business agree on this. A survey of Tor users is unlikely to agree with shutting them all out merely for using Tor. > permit you to check out library books with no identification Books, movies, tools, anything rented... they already handle cash and accounts, they could very easily maintain a full cash deposit up to your chosen checkout limit. I did rental once, somewhere around ten during my time demurred about signing, giving info or credit. I said ok, gave them John/Jane Does and dropped the cash. Best repeat customers ever.. serving anonymity with a smile works :) > access to services with HTTPS and TOR Some might consider that a social responsibility these days. If that's part of why some very popular sites have now provisioned and allow this, that's a good thing. > canceling your service . posted . banned you . offensive > your desire to mask your activities from your employer > your visiting a data site using company time or resources > [similar language/tone throughout these areas] No, and no thank you! Among various services... twitters, facebooks, dates, blogs, forums/lists, wikis... I keep up with a number of them for hobby, utility, work/personal, fun and so on. My employer has a flexible work/life policy that permits responsible use of their network. So be a little more careful before suggesting that I or anyone else are out here breaking laws and policies, trolling the net, from their workplace, over Tor, in order to carve up their dates, con people, adulterate and generally be Dr. Evil ok. That's serious talk, it's false and it's not appreciated. > pasted the title from the digest ... explain how to avoid dethreading If available in the digest, the original Message-Id can be copied to an In-Reply-To header via a header editing mailer such as Mutt. Alternatively, supplying the identical 'Subject: CloudFlare' would allow simple subject threading in the MUA. My own use, in part due to Gmail, isn't always great either. Using peoples names in the subject still isn't good though, better to go off list in that case. Anyway, back to Tor :) _______________________________________________ tor-talk mailing list [email protected] https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
