Can i have help dressin? On Jul 21, 2016 7:59 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> Send tor-talk mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tor-talk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request (z9wahqvh) > 2. Re: Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request (Allen) > 3. Re: Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request (Mirimir) > 4. Re: Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request (Zenaan Harkness) > 5. Re: Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request (Jaromil) > 6. Re: Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request (z9wahqvh) > 7. Re: Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request (Nick Levinson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 08:02:38 -0400 > From: z9wahqvh <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request > Message-ID: > < > cajos0dwcq+md8mpskss5nzy+bytykth8_ysnn1u+v1yjwc7...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 7:53 AM, Mirimir <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > One can request anything. > > > > > > FOIA requests go to the specific governmental agency that have the > documents in question. You make a FOIA request for FBI documents to the > FBI. The FBI is required by law to respond (even if the response is > "glomar"). > > Tor is not a government agency. You can request anything from it, of > course, but that would not be a FOIA request, and it is under no legal > obligation to respond. > > If we can argue over something as basic and clear as this, one has to > wonder about other conversations here (if one didn't already). > > - z9 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 08:03:49 -0400 > From: Allen <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request > Message-ID: > < > cab7tammbm9xjrx31ogpxmczl-oyhlxfwpkllzohw7cvhcds...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > > One can request anything. > > > > For starters, you can't legally request that someone assassinate the > President, send you child pornography, provide you with weapons of mass > destruction, etc. So definitely not anything. And while you can make some > requests, you can only make an FOI request of a government agency. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 06:15:54 -0600 > From: Mirimir <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 07/21/2016 06:03 AM, Allen wrote: > >> > >> One can request anything. > >> > > > > For starters, you can't legally request that someone assassinate > > the President, send you child pornography, provide you with weapons > > of mass destruction, etc. So definitely not anything. And while > > you can make some requests, you can only make an FOI request of a > > government agency. > > I didn't say anything about "legally"? > > Maybe he should have put FOIA in scare quotes ;) > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXkLz0AAoJEGINZVEXwuQ+UPoH/R7wQFyG+HMhi9p+5LUEg5lR > V4py8dAyb18XMEUHklO8Mmv6CX+1aT8nCYeh9bsyFA8MMK/doOGATkKD3RgTu94g > A66HpP5s3wT3bXTLt2/PBFa2hFBRpYdM9ZD5DCO07wAzVGuaRAo9wWJHH1z4QduD > cnfW1OQb4DlLbI98YHT4CROSPnO66TSJQ2p2XjKvkMjG6Jo3vwnYzphJj99eidON > 9wdnwDspZ+YU/xwTKrcOc3hkE8yucMIdlMc9hMIHcZDL9vqkYQ1EAXWuAwYS1W9Q > mr3sDwV1fZC5a7I9GCxLwG4irkCx3i/YCCe5dVQlvbu1Dsn0gBuGSnVo0JN93xo= > =Bagw > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 23:46:17 +1000 > From: Zenaan Harkness <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request > Message-ID: <20160721134617.GB23291@x220-a02> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 08:03:49AM -0400, Allen wrote: > > > > > > One can request anything. > > > > For starters, you can't legally request that someone assassinate the > > President, send you child pornography, provide you with weapons of mass > > destruction, etc. So definitely not anything. > > So definitely not anything, --legally--! > > > And while you can make some requests, you can only make an FOI request > > of a government agency. > > Nope, you can make an FOI request of anyone. You can make an FOIA > request of any government agency and they have certain statutory (the > "A"ct part of FOIA) obligation to respond in a certain way. > > Tor Inc presents itself as a certain type of entity, via its website and > other forums of communication, the statements of its employees and also > the non-refuted statements of the users, volunteers and other supporters > of tor. > > This generates certain expectations in the "members of the community", > which align with my comprehension of the terms "freedom", "information > about the entity Tor Inc" and "freedom of information". > > How much those in control of Tor Inc release in response to grarpamp's > "FOI" request, beyond that which they statutorily release to the public > already, is a matter for them, their courtesy, their sense of proper > behaviour, their desire to meet the expectations of "the tor community", > their sense of duty to disclose to this community, their personal > principles, their need to manage the fallout from recent events, and > their willingness to demonstrate certain principles which we in the > community clearly expect, including transparency, honesty, and trust. > > Let's be generous in our expectations of those directly inside Tor Inc > meeting this simple genuine and frank request, and at the same time > let's be cautious and publicly curious in respect of any "no" responses. > > As always, let's assume good faith in general and keep our communication > as constructive as possible. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 15:59:54 +0200 > From: Jaromil <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request > Message-ID: <20160721135954.GA22254@reflex> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > How much those in control of Tor Inc release in response to > > grarpamp's "FOI" request, beyond that which they statutorily release > > to the public already, is a matter for them, their courtesy, their > > sense of proper behaviour, their desire to meet the expectations of > > "the tor community", their sense of duty to disclose to this > > community, their personal principles, their need to manage the > > fallout from recent events, and their willingness to demonstrate > > certain principles which we in the community clearly expect, > > including transparency, honesty, and trust. > > > Let's be generous in our expectations of those directly inside Tor > > Inc meeting this simple genuine and frank request, and at the same > > time let's be cautious and publicly curious in respect of any "no" > > responses. > > > As always, let's assume good faith in general and keep our > > communication as constructive as possible. > > Well put. I just like to add that Tor Inc should not ignore this > request, not because it having any legal binding of sorts, but simply > because it comes from someone who is most active in the Tor community > (with most useful post on this list, according to my analysis) and > well representative of it. So to say, this can't be called trolling. > > And I'm quite confident Tor Inc can provide appropriate information. > > I do suspect this request comes in the context of realising what sort > of communication can be established between the community and Tor Inc, > considering its director of communications has posted only twice and > only recently on this list. > > > ciao > > -- > ~.,_ Denis Roio aka Jaromil http://Dyne.org think &do tank > "+. CTO and co-founder free/open source developers > @) ⚷ crypto κρυπτο крипто गुप्त् 加密 האנוסים المشفره > @@) GnuPG: 6113D89C A825C5CE DD02C872 73B35DA5 4ACB7D10 > (@@@) opmsg:73a8e097a038d82b 8afb4c05804bda0d 281b3880fbc19b88 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 10:01:58 -0400 > From: z9wahqvh <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request > Message-ID: > < > cajos0dubrh+fhbltpzlppp2ts2dj5bbuacorpxfwn3dzpf8...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Zenaan Harkness <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Nope, you can make an FOI request of anyone. You can make an FOIA > > request of any government agency and they have certain statutory (the > > "A"ct part of FOIA) obligation to respond in a certain way. > > > > > > > "I know a term has a generally accepted and even legal meaning, but I'm > going to use it however I want and demand you use it that way too." > > always a great way to start a dialogue. > > the principles you express are all correct and I agree with them. why it > helps to muddy the waters by using a term that means something specific to > most people that hear it is beyond me. > > -- z9 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 23:59:13 +0000 (UTC) > From: Nick Levinson <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > In U.S. Federal law, the statute is at 5 U.S.C. 552 (choose from 2 URLs: > https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collectionUScode.action?collectionCode=USCODE&searchPath=Title+5%2FPart+I%2FChapter+5%2FSUBCHAPTER+II&oldPath=Title+5%2FPart+I%2FCHAPTER+5&isCollapsed=true&selectedYearFrom=2014&ycord=969 > or > https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collectionUScode.action?collectionCode=USCODE&searchPath=Title+5%2FPart+I%2FChapter+5%2FSUBCHAPTER+II&oldPath=Title+5%2FPart+I%2FCHAPTER+5&isCollapsed=true&selectedYearFrom=2014&ycord=969). > Some corporations are under it but only if they happen to be government > agencies, defined inclusively; in one case, a parking lot organization was > ruled to be such an agency because of its funding. But, generally, private > organizations, including most nonprofits, are outside of section 552's > reach. Many states have comparable laws, but, likewise, they probably are > limited to government information. On the other hand, some of what the > original poster wants are filed with government agencies and may be > available there under these statutes regardless of what the Tor Project > wishes. > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > tor-talk mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk > > > ------------------------------ > > End of tor-talk Digest, Vol 66, Issue 35 > **************************************** > -- tor-talk mailing list - [email protected] To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
