On 10/28/20 4:35 PM, enh wrote: > On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 2:26 PM Rob Landley <r...@landley.net> wrote: >> >> On 10/28/20 10:47 AM, enh wrote: >>> yeah, i don't have any particular use for it myself, but i accept the >>> "behave more like the thing you're replacing" argument and i don't see >>> any problem that patch would cause, so "lgtm". >> >> It's an optimization problem that I'm not the target audience for. Tricksy. > > yeah, same here. i didn't even know (before the bug reports/feature > requests came in), for example, that not everyone knows what "-" and > "--" usually mean.
I know they don't, which is why I documented it, but I'm not sure what the best way to introduce/organize the material is off the top of my head. >>> mostly off topic, but personally i'd like to surface the "generally >>> applicable but not widely known and kind of annoying if we repeat it >>> everywhere it's relevant" stuff from --help: ... >>> but that shouldn't get in the way of this patch. >> >> Yup. It's in the toybox --help because I wanted to document it somewhere, >> but am >> not sure how to point people at it... > > like i said, although i personally think this is a more interesting > problem, i don't think it should get in the way of submitting your > current patch which solves _a_ problem others are having :-) I added making youtube video tutorials as a patreon goal when I first set that up, but it's never got close to it and I don't think the page even shows goals anymore? (Patreon keeps "improving" the interface so it shows less information in a more confusing manner.) But right now, I don't even have cycles to answer mail here promptly. Said I was busy with at $DAYJOB through the end of the year. (I hit the paus button so nobody gets billed for the patreon in November, because I'm not doing the work right now.) >> Toybox 0.8.4 multicall binary: https://landley.net/toybox (toybox --help) > > i think part of the problem is that people don't know there's more > about argument parsing that they don't know, Yes, but that's not an isolated case. There's an awful lot of "I didn't know that was good to know", and when you pile it up in large amounts it gets overwhelming again... Years ago when I first sat down at a unix command prompt, I couldn't figure out what my OPTIONS were. I found out about man pages pretty quickly, but "where do I find a list of available commands" was something I couldn't get a straight answer to for YEARS. Of course now I know where to find the index of the posix spec, and where to find the linux standard base command list, and that man7.org has web pages with command lists for each man page section (and that there's an "intro" page within each section that describes the purpose of the section, if not listing the actual commands in it), and I can type "help" at the bash prompt to get a list of bash builtins, and "alias" to find the list of defined aliases that have been set up by my init scripts, and we're back into "overwhelming" territory before we've even started talking about anything android-specific yet... Add in the difference between a tutorial and a reference, and I'm going "youtube videos". I need to teach a course on unixing, broken into little searchable bits. (Speaking of argument parsing, there should be some way to generate a documentation skeleton from the NEWTOY() option string, and/or compare the option string against the docs. Basically the lib/args.c comments at the top applied to the optstr that can say "This takes an integer argument with range from x to y and default value z", "this string argument can occur multiple times", "this command stops parsing arguments after the first non-option argument"...) My todo list runneth over so much I seldom even MENTION that sort of thing because it's so far down... > and much of `toybox > --help` is about installation and the like anyway. i also have strong > anecdata that people read man7.org more than they read any of toybox's > --help output anyway :-/ Sure, because it's got an index. :) I once did a basic "toybox help -s" with one line summaries of all the commands. The thing is, to make it not suck I need to take the first line of the SOURCE (I.E. the comment at the very top of the source file for each command), which doesn't match one to one with the commands, and... It went back on the todo list because it needed more work than I could give it just then. But yeah, automatic usage: line generation from the option string and the one-per-line option descriptions (where a command that takes an argument could look for the first ALLCAPS word in the command description so sed -e would see "-e Add SCRIPT to list" and be able to [-e SCRIPT] from that...) There's a bunch of stuff I _could_ be doing. But right now, I'm helping make investor fundraising decks for a startup and learning how USB 2.0 works under the covers. > as i may have already said, i'm not sure _this_ problem even has a solution! I have plans for many things I haven't had time to work on. >> And then I can change the top level toybox page from news.html to about.html >> except... looking at the about page again it's all FAQ entries, isn't it? I >> should just put an "about" section at the start of the FAQ, but although I >> can >> symlink index.html to any of the other pages I can't easily make it jump to >> an >> #anchor tag so it's not quite equivalent... I started on that. Haven't had time to finish it, but now my local copy of the FAQ is a terrible mess I should find time to clean up again. >> While I'm at it I also need to collate the "general questions" to the end of >> the >> FAQ. Things like "why time based releases" and "will you backport old >> versions" >> are generic open source project questions, not really toybox specific. (In >> fact >> the second one I originally wrote for busybox, but after I left they made it >> busybox-specific and thus a less useful general answer to the question. In >> https://busybox.net/FAQ.html#backporting everything from "if you don't want >> to >> take the risk" to right before "the volunteers are happy" was not part of >> what I >> originally wrote. One of my motivations for doing a new FAQ...) I should write that down on one of the todo lists, I suppose... >> Rob Rob _______________________________________________ Toybox mailing list Toybox@lists.landley.net http://lists.landley.net/listinfo.cgi/toybox-landley.net
