On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 11:49 PM Rob Landley <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 3/5/24 18:31, enh via Toybox wrote: > >> We have a 7-10 year support horizon, How many terminal escape protocols > >> have been relevant > >> in the last 10 years: One. The story is the same for UTF8 and LP64 > > There's a certain amount of 80/20 going on. > > If you 80/20 twice you get 96%. (80% of the remaining 20%.) > > If you 80/20 THREE times you get 99.2%. > > Diminishing returns kick in real fast. I usually do one round and wait for > people to show up with use cases. > > > (to be fair, toybox does support ILP32 too, not just LP64 --- it's > > just weird stuff like Windows' LLP64 that's explicitly out of scope > > aiui.) > > They made their bed, explicitly and intentionally: > > https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20050131-00/?p=36563 > > And then they made Windows Subsystem for Linux. (Twice, apparently.) > > > i honestly still > > don't believe hurd actually exists! > > It technically exists, it just doesn't WORK. > > > i've never seen it, whereas i've > > actively used all the others you mention, plus the two i just > > mentioned, and Tru64 too. if you want "obscure but definitely a real > > thing", how about Plan 9?) > > Eh, that wasn't exactly obscure, it was just tied up in really stupid > AT&T->Lucent licensing shenanigans until ~Y2K (so that nobody could SEE it > without forking over thousands of dollars, rumors of greatness but nobody had > personal experience), by which point it was about ten years moot.
my university used it --- one reason i have so much hate for AIX is because i plan 9 was basically my first unix, and the alternatives were slow and bloated. (AIX makes a lot more sense as a grown up who understands that IBM's business is not products but consulting.) IRIX was at least _very_ pretty, but i still wrote my own window manager because the startup time of 4dwm was unacceptable on the Indy [though i think the Indigo wasn't as bad --- "The Indy is the Indigo without the 'go'"]. (see also http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/tirix/embarrassing-memo.html for more along those lines!) but plan 9 is still the only system i've used where _all_ the source was just there by default -- and in a manageable quantity! -- and you could just edit and rebuild trivially. don't like something? change it! share your changes with your friends if they agree. i can imagine no better system to have learned unix on. (though to be clear: it taught several "how not to do it" lessons too. fixed-length buffers and arbitrary limits made it hard to love at times, and ironically pushed people towards stuff like perl that didn't have an opinion on what a "reasonable" line length was, etc.) > But it got > looted for a bunch of ideas like procfs, and Linux virtfs is a v9fs is > 9p2000.L. > > https://landley.net/kdocs/ols/2010/ols2010-pages-109-120.pdf > > You want obscure, the Bell Labs guys kept doing Unix releases after v7, all > the > way through v10, before starting over with Plan 9. They just never got > published > outside of the labs (for the same reason Plan9 didn't, the commercialization > drive). They finally got released to the public about the same time Plan 9 > did: > > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/ > > By the way, while FIPS 151-2 was in force and posix compliance was a > requirement > to qualify for federal procurement contracts, EVERYBODY did a Unix. Apple did > a > unix for mac hardware in 1988: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A/UX > > Dell did a Unix: > > https://gunkies.org/wiki/Dell_UNIX > > Commodore did a unix for the amiga: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Unix > > Microsoft lied and claimed that Windows NT was a unix: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_POSIX_subsystem > > The "unix wars" got REALLY WEIRD for a while there. > > Rob > > (P.S. When I say "weird" I mean > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunice_(software) > which yes, I used as a teenager.) _______________________________________________ Toybox mailing list [email protected] http://lists.landley.net/listinfo.cgi/toybox-landley.net
