Bill,
This was discussed somewhere recently and I'll try to attach the TG8 
opinion letter on the should/must deal.  If it does not go through, please 
contact me privately and I can email it.
-Chris

At 11:05 AM 4/26/02 -0700, Bill Chessman wrote:
>Okay, I admit, though fairly familiar with EDI, my HIPAA knowledge is
>limited and only recently won.  Here's the crux of my thoughts.  According
>to the IGs the phrase NOT USED means <copyandpaste source="004010X096">This
>item should not be used when complying with this implementation
>guide.</copyandpaste>
>
>I'm not clear from the discussion: does "should not" equal "must not" as far
>as HIPAA rules go?  If something is transmitted that falls in this "should
>not" zone, is the sender liable for fines, imprisonment, wrist slaps,
>summary execution or other appropriate punishment?  If HIPAA "should not" is
>"must not", then the answer is clearly to send additional (parallel, maybe
>EDI, maybe XML, maybe proprietary--who cares?) documents.  If that's the
>case, it's enough to me to stop my line of inquiry.
>
>On the other hand, if "should not" really means "we don't think it's a good
>idea but we can't stop you if you really really want to send this NOT USED
>thing," then I submit it would be possible for a state to say, "gee, we need
>you to send this additional stuff (in the very same 837) that doesn't
>supersede/violate HIPAA but provides us [the state] with some very important
>data."  I stress here additional data that doesn't countermand or violate
>any of the HIPAA requirements.  (One motivation for such a stance would be
>to avoid having a plethora of different brands of documents transmitted.)
>
>Does the final rule, somewhere therein, give an iron-clad statement that
>though shalt not use NOT USED items under penalty of grievous punishment?
>
>Best regards,
>Bill Chessman
>Peregrine Systems, Inc.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rachel Foerster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 12:28 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: States' roles in HIPAA IG vs. X12 Compliance
>
>
>Bill,
>
>Here's my comments inline to your questions posed below.
>
>Rachel
>Rachel Foerster
>Principal
>Rachel Foerster & Associates, Ltd.
>Professionals in EDI & Electronic Commerce
>39432 North Avenue
>Beach Park, IL 60099
>Phone: 847-872-8070
>Fax: 847-872-6860
>http://www.rfa-edi.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Chessman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 12:37 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: States' roles in HIPAA IG vs. X12 Compliance
>
>
>All this talk about the HIPAA IG and X12 Compliance and 997 vs 824 vs
>something completely different has my head spinning a little bit.  Another
>thing that was mentioned made me wonder about how the state laws may fit
>into this jigsaw puzzle called HIPAA Compliance.
>
>In trying to keep my volume of e-mail archives to a minimum, I confess I've
>lost the name of the person who posted the remark, but it went something
>like, "what about state-level mandates for specific data used for
>statistical analysis, epidemiological tracking, etc. and how does that
>affect segments which are deemed in the HIPAA IGs as NOT USED?"
>
><ref>No affect whatsoever to the HIPAA IGs. They are mandated by federal law
>for the specific purpose defined in the law/rule and in accordance with the
>standard set forth in the law. If states want other or additional data
>beyond the specific data allowed within a specific HIPAA guide, they are
>well within their states' rights to require additional transactions. In this
>case they are then not the HIPAA mandated transaction, but another set of
>data in another transaction....it's just not a HIPAA transaction. These
>transactions could also be based on the full X12 transaction specification,
>but subsetted to suit the needs. For example, if the X12 837 can support
>additional information needed for statistical analysis, etc. there is no
>prohibition against a state, or any other entity for that matter, using the
>837 for that purpose. There's no conflict with HIPAA since it's not the
>transaction as specified in the law. For example, here's what the law says
>is a claim:
>
>Health care claims or equivalent encounter information:
>A transmission from a provider to a health plan to
>         Request payment
>         Provide necessary accompanying information
>         Provide encounter information for the purpose of reporting health
>care
>                 No direct claim, because the reimbursement contract is based
>on a
>mechanism other than charges or                 reimbursement rates for
>specific services
>
>Designated Standards:
>Retail pharmacy drug claims
>         NCPDP Telecommunication Standard Implementation Guide, Version 5
>Release 1,
>September 1999
>         NCPDP Batch Standard Batch Implementation Guide, Version 1 Release
>0,
>February 1, 1996
>Institutional Health Care Claims
>         ASC X12N 837-Health Care Claim Version 004010X096
>Dental Health Care Claims
>         ASC X12N 837-Health Care Claim Version 004010X097
>Professional Health Care Claims
>         ASC X12N 837-Health Care Claim Version 004010X098
>
>Any entity is free to use the X12 837 for other purposes outside of this in
>any way it chooses, assuming of course, that it does so with the purpose and
>scope of the 837.
>
></ref>
>
>Is there any precedent for putting state laws on top of federal laws?
>
><ref>Of course there's precedent for state laws to expand on federal
>laws....the Uniform Commercial Code is a good example, as is UETA, the
>Uniform Electronic Transactions Act. In these two examples, each state is
>free to adopt/adapt the federal act as it deems necessary within its own
>jurisdiction.</ref>
>
>By that I don't mean as an attempt to supersede, but rather as an attempt to
>augment.  If the state says, "we want to do everything that's called for in
>HIPAA but there's also this other stuff we want in addition"...would that be
>possible? legal? on the horizon?
>
>Also, if so, would we likely expect some states to issue their own "HIPAA++"
>IGs?  Is this something that might need to be taken into consideration?
>
><ref>States cannot supercede the HIPAA electronic transaction final rule.
>Since HIPAA is federal law, it crosses all state boundaries and applies to
>all states, whether business is conducted intra- or inter-state.?ref>
>
>Also, what happens if the claim is across state lines and both have their
>own HIPAA++ requirements (scenario 1: they kind of overlap, scenario 2: they
>conflict)?
>
><ref>If it's a claim, then all covered entities must comply with the claim
>specification set forth in the federal law. The HIPAA Electronic Transaction
>Final Rule **supercedes** any state law to the contrary except if that state
>law is necessary to prevent fraud and abuse.</ref>
>
><ref>Furthermore, states are free to enact their own laws and regulations
>regarding the prompt payment of health care claims....and many states have
>already done so, e.g., New Jersey, Texas. Some states are also using the
>term "clean claim", but are conveniently not defining what constitutes a
>clean claim.</ref>
>
><ref>Clear? Or clear as mud!!</ref>
>
>
>
>
>Just thinking "aloud."
>
>Best regards,
>Bill Chessman
>Peregrine Systems, Inc.

Christopher J. Feahr, OD
http://visiondatastandard.org
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cell/Pager: 707-529-2268        

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