Hi everyone :)If you read both Pootle and Translate-devel lists, you will get two copies of this: sorry. I didn't know which was more appropriate, and the original post went to translate-devel.
On 08/11/2006, at 6:38 PM, F Wolff wrote:
* We also got to see a Vietnamese build of OpenOffice.org that was largely translated recently from scratch. The build works and the SDFfixes I mentioned last week clearly works. Congratulations to Clytie for a big effort and thank you for lots of feedback from using our tools. Wehope to improve the filters from the feedback that she gave in bug 178(see http://bugs.wordforge.org/show_bug.cgi?id=178 ) If anybody wants towork on improving the checks and making them work better for a wider range of languages, please join us - we have some interesting ideas on how to tackle these problems.
Thanks to Friedel for all his help, and to Javier for all his, in our effort to localize OpenOffice 2.1. :)
I haven't been around for a while, as I have two major first-time releases occurring, Debian and OOo. I have been trying to make sense of both release processes. Maybe Debian makes more sense to me because I've been with it longer, but I'm finding OOo really difficult to understand. At last count I was active in 20 free- software translation projects, and I've been through quite a few release-processes, but OOo pretty much takes the cake for sheer confusion.
I thought it might be useful at this point to compare what I've managed to learn of OOo with what we are trying to achieve here at Wordforge. They contrast pretty strongly, making OOo a test case for our goals.
We want to reduce the barriers to participation in free-software i18n projects. When I became involved in the effort to resuscitate the OOo- Việt project, Wordforge did lower the barriers for us. Instead of me muddling my way through the OOo site and mailing lists, Javier and Friedel arranged to have the current translation files uploaded to Pootle. My only suggestion at this stage would be that we need that process to be automatic and/or fairly quick.
I know Aiet is working to lower the barriers to participation, by hosting and running a Pootle server for OOo, and the only reason I've done my work on the Wordforge Pootle has been to run a pilot project with OOo at the testing end. I envisage that Aiet's Pootle and/or the main Pootle can offer an interface to the OOo translation project.
I have suggested before that each project hosted on a Pootle should also supply an introductory page, even if it's only the name of the project and a link to its webpage. Currently, a translator interested in participating in a project can't see, from Pootle, how to do that. I think at the least, a "Project homepage" link on the page that comes up when you click on the Project name, would bridge that gap.
For extremely complex projects like OOo, we also need a Pootle page, or Pootle link to the wiki, summarizing the key steps to participation, none of which I knew when I started. If we had one of those for each project, but especially the ones which don't show these steps clearly on their homepage, I think we would get more participation.
For OOo (possibly for all projects?), this summary would include: 1. Link to list of current projects and current contacts Text: e.g. "Join a current project or start a new one."2. Information on filling out their copyright statement (I only just found out about this a day or so before having to submit my translation!)
3. Information on how to get/submit files, on getting source control access, including info on how to fill out an "issue", and how to file a typo/erroneous original string report.
4. Info on key mailing lists you need to read5. A skeleton description or diagram of their release process [1], including filetype and checks.
Pootle made the translation/review process much easier for me. It also resulted in suggestions, due to OOo's tortuous directory structure, very long string IDs, and very low quality of original text.
The work on the Pootle checks, especially for different languages, is very important, so please participate if you can. After Friedel's work, the Pootle/Translate Toolkit checks probably work much better for OOo, but there is still room for improvement with respect to how individual languages handle quoting and other punctuation, and the need for the capacity to disable specific checks in Pootle, and to create whitelists for different languages.
The OOo original strings contained so many errors, that I simply didn't have time to report them all. Unfortunately, this also meant quite a few of them resulted in overall formatting errors that couldn't be fixed. I don't know how anyone submitted a complete translation under those circumstances. I wonder if we can integrate the typo/original string error report process into Pootle in some way?
OOo's "issue" reporting process is fairly demanding, but other bug- trackers can be as bad. What we need for Pootle is a way to record erroneous original strings, with suggested fixes, as we go through a file. When we finish that file, we either save/download that info, or go onto the next file, downloading the error report for a specific file at any time. Having a way to record errors as we go through, maybe even just to tag them so we can identify them by running a specific check ("error_originals"), would be very useful.
We have been working on automating the process of creating an OOo- format file (.sdf) from current PO files. The aim is to have a regular task which updates the .sdf file in SVN (which is logged as the submitted translation) from the current PO files. It is important for us to have a list of the language codes used, so we can make sure the .sdf file matches what OOo expects. Sample string block:
___avmedia source\framework\mediacontrol.src 0 string AVMEDIA_STR_MUTE 1 en-US Mute 2002-02-02 02:02:02 avmedia source\framework\mediacontrol.src 0 string AVMEDIA_STR_MUTE 1 vi Câm 2002-02-02 02:02:02
___The wrong language-code completely disables the translation in the builds.
One of Wordforge's aims is to increase participation for language communities with low resources. These are the communities which suffer most, I believe, from complex situations like OOo which require a great deal of general knowledge about the free-software world, and a even more specific knowledge about the OOo project. Especially if you are creating a language project at OOo, or anywhere else, you need more support than is currently available.
We can improve this situation by adding to Pootle's capacity as an interface between the translator and the upstream project. I think the kind of information I mentioned here is important, but we can also improve the function between Pootle and the Translate Wiki to provide more "introductory" information about projects, and to collect more of the basic information people need to form language teams, create locales, test input/display etc.
We also need Pootle coordinators for specific projects. These people are not only responsible for the Project A files on Pootle, updating them etc., but also for liaising with translators and the upstream project. I think this is also an opportunity for mentoring translators from low-resource communities.
In fine, what helped me with OOo on Pootle was having the files accessible, and having help to work through the problems I encountered. What I think translators new to OOo will also need is key information, specific processes to handle the sheer welter of strings, and a bridge between the complete file and the released product.
from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm Việt hóa phần mềm tự do)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN [1] http://blog.janik.cz/files/OOoCon2006/img0.html
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