TOTALLY RUDE Mr.Towner

Offer us your opinions if you must, but limit yourself to technical
arguement and not to personal attack. This is a forum of professionals
whose opinions may differ but it is better to discuss the differences
openly
without having to resort to rudeness.

I find, I don't agree with your position on ENV documents. You stated that
these must be used only with  a competent bodies involvement. There are
currently some family product specs that call out  ENV documents. Since the
family
product spec has been published with an EN number we need not involve a
C.B.

-----------------------------------------------------
Kevin Harris
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Digital Security Controls
Canada
416 665-8460 Ex 378

Opinions expressed are purely personal
-------------------------------------------------------

> From: Richard C. Towner <[email protected]>
> To: Jeff Whitmire   ITS/QS-Atl
<[email protected]>
> Cc: "Butch Sarma" <[email protected]>; T-REG <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Not Correct, Mr. Whitmire!
> Date: Friday, December 13, 1996 8:00 PM
> 
> Let's get this straight, Mr. Whitmire, I'm tired of misinformation!!
> 
> IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT OF THE EMC DIRECTIVE TO USE HARMONIZED STANDARDS,
> PRODUCT SPECIFIC STANDARDS, GENERIC STANDARDS, OR ANY OTHER STANDARDS! 
IN FACT,
> A MFR. CAN USE MIL STD, OR BELLCORE, OR ANY OTHER STANDARD HE/SHE WISHES
TO USE,
> IF SHE/HE WISHES TO USE STANDARDS AT ALL!
> 
> FURTHERMORE, Under the EMC Directive there are TWO types of standards
(READ
> ARTICLE 7 BELOW) in an accepted hierarchy, and these standards don't have
> anything to do with product specificity or generic requirements under the
> Directive.  That information comes from the subdivision of the standards
> referred to in Article 7 below by the Official Journal, WHICH IS NOT THE
EMC
> DIRECTIVE OR ANY OTHER DIRECTIVE, AND DOES NOT OFFER TO INTERPRET
COMPLIANCE
> WITH THE DIRECTIVES.
> 
> Article 7 of the Directive refers to "harmonized standards", and I quote:
 
> 1: Member states shall presume (that's PRESUME, not assert!) compliance
with the
> protection requirements referred to in Article 4 in the case of apparatus
which
> is in conformity;
> a)  with the relevant national standards transposing the harmonized
standards,
> the reference numbers of which have been published in the Official
Journal of
> the European Communities.  Member states shall publish the reference of
such
> national standards;
> b)  or with the relevant national standards referred to in paragraph 2 in
so far
> as, in the areas covered by such standards, no harmonized standards
exist.
> 
> 2)  (Foregone.  relevance is not appropriate to this argument)
> 
> 3)  Member States shall accept that where the manufacturer has not
applied, or
> has applied only in part the standards referred to in paragraph one, or
where no
> such standards exist, apparatus shall be regarded as satisfying the
protection
> requirements has been certified by means of attestation provided for in
Article
> 10(2);
> 
> Article 10:
> 2)  In the case of apparatus for which the manufacturer has not applied,
or has
> applied only in part, the standards referred to in Article 7 (1) or
failing such
> standards, the manufacturer or his authorized representative shall hold
at the
> disposal of the relevant competent authorities, as soon as the apparatus
is
> placed on the market, a technical construction file.  This file shall
describe
> the apparatus, set out the procedures used to ensure conformity of the
apparatus
> with the protection requirements referred to in Article 4 and include a
> technical report or certificate, one or the other obtained from a
competent
> body.
> 
> etc., etc., etc.,
> 
>  But you say in your statement "to declare conformity to the EMC
Directive you
> MUST [caps mine] use the product specific standard, or if none is
published use
> the Generic Standard for the intended environment..." in reference to the
use of
> standards.  Standards are an excellent basis against which conformity can
be
> gauged, and they should be used as such.  Indeed, they should be
implemented in
> the design phase because that's what they're for.  But there is nothing
in the
> Directive or any amendments that either advocates or mandates the use of
> standards.  In fact, under article 9 of the Directive the manufacturer
bears
> some culpability "where the apparatus does not meet the standards
referred to in
> article 7... incorrect application of the standards referred to in
article 7...
> shortcomings in the standards referred to in Article 7 (1) themselves..."
 In
> this case the authorities have already taken the product off the market
and will
> keep it off for at least two months while they make up their minds. 
Either way,
> a manufacturer or supplier is hurt...seriously!
> 
> The implication is that a TCF may be a better risk management tool than
the
> standards route, but article 9 addresses this as well (I'll let you do
the
> reading.  I can't do ALL the work.)
> 
> FURTHERMORE, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, you make inappropriate reference to
the use
> of standards other than "harmonized standards" in showing conformity to
the
> essential requirements of the Directive.  It is true that one may use
standards
> other than those "harmonized" to show conformity with the essential
requirements
> of the Directives, but this is only permissible if a Competent Body is
engaged.
> YOUR INFORMATION IS NOT ONLY INCORRECT AND MISLEADING, IT IS DANGEROUS!!
> 
> AN ENV CANNOT BE SUBSTITUTED FOR AN EN UNLESS A COMPETENT BODY OVERSEES
THE
> SUBSTITUTION! 
> A standard is only "harmonized" if it is published as "harmonized" in the
> Official Journal.  Any ENVs are, by definition, UNDER CONSIDERATION, are
thereby
> NOT "harmonized" and so cannot be employed to show conformity outside the
> jurisdiction of a Competent Body, which could be more expensive,
time-consuming,
> and frustrating than re-designing to meet the "harmonized" standards.
> 
> I appreciate that you are trying to get the information out.  But you
bear a
> certain responsibility in doing that.  PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO BE
COMPLETE IN
> YOUR ASSERTIONS AND CONSULT AN EXPERT BEFORE YOU PUT INFORMATION LIKE
THIS AT
> THE DISPOSAL OF PEOPLE WHO NEED IT TO PERFORM THIER RESPONSIBILITIES!!! 
It is
> information like what you have just given that has manufacturers doing
loops,
> wasting time and effort, and spending tons of money doing the wrong
things to
> show compliance.  
> 
> BAD INFORMATION IS UNACCEPTABLE IN REGULATORY COMPLIANCE.  THIS IS NOT A
TRIVIAL
> ISSUE!
> 
> Please, for the sake of your clients and those of us who appreciate good
> information, Bone up!!
> 
> Rick Towner
> 888-2-CE MARK

Reply via email to